Official OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND Thread - All things OSotW he

[ToddBaesen]

Managed to ask Peter Bogdanovich briefly about the fate of OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND at his weekend retrospective at the Castro Theater. The deal has indeed been slowed down by some sort of unforeseen events, but is still probably going to happen later this year... Glenn Anders and Lawrence French talked to PB in more detail, so should have more to say from Bogdanovich.

Meanwhile Peter introduced a screening of LAST PICTURE SHOW and returned after the showing with special guest Cybil Shephard (who is in SF appearing in a play) and they both talked about the movie and then actually sang an accapella song together to the near sell-out audience. It was pretty hilarious, as Cybil and Peter told stories about each other. Peter said he never knew Elvis proposed to her while he was upstairs, until he read it in her autobiography. Cybil laughed and said, "Yes, it's a good thing you weren't home... Opps, you were home!"

And Sunday night's screening of MASK was like seeing a different movie! It looked gorgeous and the Springsteen songs work much better for a biker movie.

[Joshua]

Does this mean that work has not begun yet on the film? I would think a deal would need to be complete for that to happen right?

[Glenn Anders]

If I might interject, Joshua, my understanding of Bogdanovich's remarks in his interview with Larry French (which he taped) was that some work has been done, but that THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND would take probably a year longer to edit fully, that he was working so far with Oja Kodar's copy in the LA vault, and given the full negative in Paris, he was sure that there was plenty of material. He suggested recent snags would be worked out, but in the meantime, he will also be quite busy on current new projects.

For instance, he announced to the audience at the Castro Theater on Sunday night that he is in the process of preparing a picture called KILLER JOE, starring Billy Bob Thornton, Jennifer Jason Leigh, and Jeff Daniels, from a script by Tracy Letts, based on the latter's gripping trailer-trash play, hopefully due out before Christmas, or at least in 2009. Also, in a recent time frame, he and Gore Vidal had put together (out of five drafts left behind) Tennessee Williams' final, unfinished play, Masks Outrageous and Austere (title courtesy of a poem by Elinor Wylie). Bogdanovich plans to stage the drama in the Fall on Broadway, and hopes that Cybill Shepherd will star in it.

Nevertheless, Bogdanovich assured us in Larry's interview that work on THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND would continue. Then, he repeated the story of how he was having lunch one day with Welles and some people -- I can't remember who; Larry has it -- when Welles suddenly turned to him, and said something like, "You know, Peter, if anything should happen to me, you are the only one who knows enough about this picture to finish it. Promise me that you will." Bogdanovich protested that nothing was going to happen, but Welles said that things do, and so Bogdanovich had promised. Welles said, "Then, we shall have no more talk of this," but a year or so later he was dead.

Bogdanovich intimated that THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND might be done, in voice over style, using a framing device, with himself as the seventy year-old Brooks Otterlake looking back on the tragic end, in 1976 or so, of his colleague and mentor, the legendary Director J.J. "Jake" Hannaford.

He said the picture would be full of cross-cutting, a documentary-style presentation of a mockumentary prepared during the making of Hannaford's last picture, "The Other Side of the Wind," parts of which would be dotted throughout the other levels of the film, and if Bogdanovich could not fit certain things in, or if anything were missing, old Brooks Otterlake would simply say to the audience, we don't know what our secretive pro genius Hannaford might have intended for that section. He, Otterlake, could only present the scattered record now collected thirty years after the Director's tragic accident.

Bogdanovich dropped that Welles had wanted a jazzy, infectious score for the picture . . . Nina Rota . . . La Dolce Vita -- Michel Legrand, Larry suggested, as in F FOR FAKE -- and that he was considering a number of possibilities.

The Director also dismissed the idea that John Huston had been disappointed in the film, remarking that Huston had actually tried to complete the picture himself after Welles' death, partly because he knew that his own performance was so good, but could not pull it off owing to failing health.

I made one of my few intrusions by saying: "It has long been a dream of mine that one year Orson Welles would be nominated for an Oscar for directing THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND, that Huston would get one for Best Actor, and that there would also be a Special Oscar for you, sir."

Bogdanovich smiled ruefully, and replied, "I don't know about the Academy, what they would give." We would have to see.

He spoke with Larry for nearly half an hour, and he could not have been more gracious.

We really owe Larry French and Todd Baesen a round of applause, not to mention, Peter Bogdanovich our prayers, as you will all see, if Larry publishes the entire transcript of our interview.

Glenn

[Alan Brody]

Thanks Glenn and Todd. Bogdanovich's voiceover idea as the 70 year old Brooks sounds quite interesting. Of course, that would make it a bit more of a PB/OW film. That would be great also if they could get Michel Legrand for the music. More and more though, I find myself wondering if they aren't going to just keep stalling this thing out until the Welles centennial seven years from now.

By the way, did anyone see the black and white Director's Cut of Nickelodeon at this weekend's fest? I remember Bogdanovich once saying that Orson Welles had a hand in the screenplay for that film.

[Glenn Anders]

Dear Alan: You may be correct, of course, but if they wait seven more years, almost everyone involved except perhaps Frank Marshall, should they be still alive, would be pushing eighty. Loyalty may not stretch that far. I can assure you, Peter Bogdanovich said that THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND would be done in another year's time.

We missed seeing NICKELODEON, not being there on the Saturday, certainly regrettable, but I was struck by how Welles' influence was present all through much of Bogdanovich's best work, especially where he has now had a chance to restore and clarify. Take THE LAST PICTURE SHOW, a favorite of my wife, Grace, but it had never fully registered with me until I saw Bogdanovich's Director's Cut on Friday night. I suddenly saw all the parallels with THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS! Down to the last scene being a kind of an ironic homage to the lost ending of . . . AMBERSONS. It was astounding to me.

I have just read Larry French's interview in transcript, which he is holding for confirmation from Bogdanovich. It is even more brilliant than I thought when sitting through the whole thing.

Glenn

[The Night Man]

Many thanks and congratulations to Larry French for his success in interviewing PB about this project and to Glenn Anders for providing us with a precis. Its a relief to finally get something other than rumor and speculation about its progress. The PB/Brooks Otterlake v.o. sounds intriguing; it could be the key to successfully tying the whole thing together (which has long been my concern for this project in the absence of Welles). Let's keep our fingers crossed that there are no more major roadblocks, detours, or delays.

And let me add my vote for Legrand being given the opportunity to provide an appropriately "jazzy, infectious score".

[mido505]

I would like to begin by begging the board membership's indulgence for the following remarks. I unequivocally am not trying to offend or insult anyone, especially Glen, Todd, or Larry, who have done such fine work ferretting out what little drabs of info we have on TOSOTW. These fine gentlemen's optimism regarding this project is heartwarming. I wish I could share it. I use to. But, after reading Glenn's last post, the scales have dropped from my eyes. I just can't take it anymore. So here goes.

This project is never going to happen. It's done. Finished. Kaput. Bogdanovich just admitted it. After all this time, after all these YEARS, after all this talk, he's still working on Oja's copy, if he's done any real work at all. The negative is still sitting in a vault in Paris. He hasn't seen it. He doesn't know what's in there. He doesn't know what he has to work with. Are you kidding me? Another year? They said that last year, when we heard that TOSOTW was "90% finished", just needed a few tweaks. Yeah, right. Oh, and now Bogdanovich is busy, he's got some projects. This hack, this loser, who has done nothing of interest for 23 years, who has wrecked his own life and career, this "great friend of Orson's", is now too busy to devote his full attention to TOSOTW! But he assures us that the work will continue! Don't bet on it.

Glenn's description of Bogdanovich's new conception for the film had me choking back the bile. Now his character, "Brooks Otterlake", is going to be the framing device, the center of attention. Ugh. When it comes to obnoxious narcissism, Bogdanovich never fails to disappoint. Only he could consider taking Orson's unfinished masterpiece and making it about himself. He is a leech, a user, and has been letting Orson Welles down for close to 40 years now. No wonder Billy Wilder said, when At Long Last Love bombed, that you could hear champagne glasses clinking all across Hollywood.

I never thought I would ever say this, but I wish Beatrice would get in there and start swinging. Her Othello restoration may not be perfect, but it is serviceable. And at this point, with TOSOTW, I will take serviceable over nothing, or over one of Peter Bogdanovich's odes to himself.

[tonyw]

[quote=
By the way, did anyone see the black and white Director's Cut of Nickelodeon at this weekend's fest? I remember Bogdanovich once saying that Orson Welles had a hand in the screenplay for that film.[/quote]

Many years ago, I saw it on my black and white TV set in England and thought it looked very good. I was surprised to learn that PB was forced to shoot it in color.

Now, I will stand back and watch the fireworks to Mido's posting begin. I'm rather disappointed with this announcement since PB appears to want to place his character from a secondary to a leading performance. This is not how it appears in the screenplay and I (like others) hoped for a version that was much more faithful even if most of it was in telecine format.

[Glenn Anders]

Well, mido505, tonyw, for a moment, I thought you were the same person. I had not realized that you were both such pessimists in the matter of THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND, nor that you had issues, as they say now, with Peter Bogdanovich. Please don't blame him for my second remove characterization of his remarks. Please, have the patience and courtesy, at least, to wait for Larry French's cleared transcript of the interview.

I assume that you have both seen several hours of TOSOTW footage, as Mr. French and Todd Baesen have, though not nearly so much as Mr. Bogdanovich has. If so, I should hope that you would entertain the difficulties inherent with bringing this highly complex and original picture together in a way that would do it justice as an Orson Welles film, in whatever format may be possible.

Let me call attention, mido505 and tonyw, to my use of the term "intimated," carefully selected, to describe Bogdanovich's caution in speaking about how the elements of TOSOTW might be organized. It is perhaps my own enthusiasm for using Brooks Otterlake as a logical unifying narrator that you should be taking to task, not Bogdanovich's consideration of same. Obviously, many alternative methods might be employed to unify the picture, but -- and this is only my opinion -- few of them would provide so well, I think, a touch of Wellsian magic, giving both a contradictory seamlessness and provisional order to the film's unique potential.

As I would plead again, please don't be so quick to judge the motivations of Peter Bogdanovich -- especially, without having seen one evidentiary word of Larry French's splendid interview. Whatever his career setbacks and personal sorrows, he was certainly gracious to us as representatives of Wellesnet, at considerable discomfort to himself, after a gruelling three day schedule in which he had introduced nine films, some of them twice, and sat through most of them. If French should have such temerity to share that transcript with us after this reaction, you would see that the transcript is full of enlightened detail being shed, first hand, on the possibilities of THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND.

You would see that Bogdanovich says that all the "fireworks" necessary are in the footage of the picture. And you might reflect, given this effort you praise by French and Baesen, that so much of the small-minded, crabbed nonsense we've seen here about TOSOTW over the years is just that: nonsense.

If you appreciate the work French and Baesen did for Wellesnet, save some of that appreciation for what Peter Bogdanovich is trying to do, for as the Republicans like to say these days, he is "in the arena," and, unless one of us is really, say, a Stefan Droessler or Rick Schmidlin, we are not.

Let there be light, not fireworks, gentlemen.

Accept only the clear and open record. That is my sincere hope.

Glenn

[The Night Man]

Only he could consider taking Orson's unfinished masterpiece....

Given that The Other Side of the Wind is unfinished, and still largely unseen, I think it's premature to be declaring its status as either a masterpiece or a disaster, regardless of what possibilities PB may have suggested regarding its completion.

[ToddBaesen]

Mido:

I detect a hint of understandable frustration in your post, and I think you may have misunderstood Glenn's comments in his first post above, which he wrote before he had seen the PB interview transcript. I think Glenn's first comments might have been slightly inaccurate in regards to what Bogdanovich said he may (or may not) be planning to do about the opening voice over narration.

The film was originally to start with Welles narrating the events that led to Jake Hannaford's death. As this voice over was never recorded by Welles, the only major actor left who could still do the voice-over narration (and thus keep Welles intentions and dialogue in the movie) would be Bogdanovich in his role of Brooks Otterlake. And from reading the interview transcript, my understanding is Bogdanovich would NOT be doing it as a 70 year old, but simply as a continuation of his role filmed with John Huston all those years ago. When the complete interview with Bogdanovich is posted on Wellesnet, I think you will see this is in no way a vanity project for Bogdanovich, but more like a labor of love. But until the project gets the go ahead, what should Bogdanovich do? Stop all his other projects and (as you point out, possibly quite vainly) wait until the OSOTW gets the go ahead?

As to whether the film ever sees the light of day, you may well be right. Unfortunately, forces beyond anyone's control have conspired to keep the film unfinished for far too long. In the end, it will either be completed, or it won't. At least the script is available, but to me it seems quite lamentable that for whatever reasons, an attempt isn't made to finish putting the film together, since the majority of the footage has indeed been shot.

As to Bogdanovich's own film career, I must say I was never a big fan of his, but found after watching TARGETS and THE LAST PICTURE SHOW again, along with the director's cut of MASK, that they all stand up beautifully. I still find all three to be excellent films, very well acted and directed and also incredibly moving.

[Joshua]

My thanks as well to all of those who have (finally it seems) gathered some new information on this project. I too am a pessimist at heart, and am a bit depressed on the news that the deal is still not done. I cannot speak intellegently on the talent of Bogdanovich, having seen only a few of his films a few times, but when considering him two thoughts come to mind. First, Welles put it to him (so he says--I'm not sure if others witnessed this as well) to finish the film. That must say something as to what Welles thought of his talent. Secondly, if this picture ever sees the light of day, it will largely be Bogdanovich's efforts that made it happen. At that point, he will be partially responsible for something that I never thought would occur in my lifetime (as Orson passed away when I was five): me taking a walk down a movie theater isle to view a newly released Orson Welles picture.

[Alan Brody]

No wonder Billy Wilder said, when At Long Last Love bombed, that you could hear champagne glasses clinking all across Hollywood.

Something had happened. A thing which, years ago, had been the eagerest hope of many, many good citizens of the town, and now it had come at last; Peter Bogdanovich had got his comeuppance. He got it three times filled, and running over.

But then, after Jaws and Star Wars, those that had so longed for it had forgotten all about it, and all about him. And all about his fat friend too.

[Tony]

I saw Paper Moon the other day on TCM and I thought it was a very beautiful film; the best "father/daughter" picture I've ever seen. And a very emotional ending.

The strange thing about Bogdanovich is how he seemed so unpretentious and likable and superbly talented at the beginning of his career: The Last Picture Show, Targets, Paper Moon, and then directed such unbelievably bad pictures as At Long Last Love and Daisy Miller, and also turned into such an unlikable, pompous, pretentious character.

It's a mystery, but I suspect it has something to do with those Orsonian cigars.

[tonyw]

I
The strange thing about Bogdanovich is how he seemed so unpretentious and likable and superbly talented at the beginning of his career: The Last Picture Show, Targets, Paper Moon, and then directed such unbelievably bad pictures as At Long Last Love and Daisy Miller, and also turned into such an unlikable, pompous, pretentious character.I

In his Cineaste review of THE SEARCHERS DVD, I believe Chris Sharrett describes PB as a "stage-door Johnny" appearing in all these extras and talking about the directors he knew.

In answer to Glenn, I've only seen the youtube extracts of TOSTW, but reserve the right to remain skeptical on the basis of the information available so far - until the full interview does appear also reserving the right to be skeptical or not.