"Fountain of Youth" on YouTube!!!

Discuss all Welles-related Television projects from the 1950s and 1960s.
Tony
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Postby Tony » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:16 pm

:?
Well, Mido: everyone's odd, aren't they?

But: I simply must disagree with you on Novak's performance: I think it is magical, sexy, mysterious, girlish: everything required for the two 'roles' she must play. And the scene in Scotty's apartment when he has taken off her clothes and she awakens has my vote as the all-time sexiest and romantic scene in all of Hitchcock. I agree that the recent (the last 35 years or so) re-evaluation sharply differs from the original lambasting, but time usually does shake out masterpieces, just as Kane took 20 years to top the Sight and Sound.

As for Hedren: now there's someone who never should have appeared in any movie, a terrible amateur. But because of the role in the Birds, an uptight socialite, she worked. But in Marnie, she was a disaster (which really didn't matter, as the picture was a disaster.)

Henry Fonda as Scotty? Well, Stewart could be really romantic, but Fonda was a dry fish. I can't imagine a less sexy/romantic actor than Fonda, and I think he was a very great actor.

Grace Kelly in Vertigo? Too sophisticated by half, I'd say: no way she could have pulled off the immature teenager as Novak did. Novak's character is only superficially sophisticated, as trained by the husband too immitate his wife. I don't think Kelly could have pulled off the transition.

Monty Clift? A great actor, but he'd already had his car accident by 58, hadn't he?

Sorry, Mido, but I'm with the new majority on this one: Stewart and Novak are perfection, and so is the script and directing: this is why Vertigo will overtake Kane in the next sight and sound poll (in 2012).

By the way, what is dander? :wink:

mido505
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Postby mido505 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:33 pm

Tony:

The phrase "get your dander up" is a nineteenth century American colloquialism meaning "to get angry" or "to get annoyed". The origin of dander is murky, the most common explanation being that it is a corruption of dandruff, with the phrase evoking the image of a man so furious that he is tearing at his hair, sending the dandruff flying.

As usual, I like your points without agreeing with them. I did some poking around today, and Vertigo is a very controversial title. It seems that most of the controversy about Vertigo centers around Novak; if the viewer finds Novak attractive, and can share Scottie's obsession, they like it; if not, not. I find her stiff, waxy, and ever so slightly bovine, so Vertigo doesn't work for me. That's all.

I do not see Scottie as romantic, I see him as perverse. Vertigo is not a romance, it is a horror movie, with Scottie as an obsessed, driven, near necrophiliac Dr. Frankenstein, disguised as an American Everyman. Stewart gets the Everyman part right, but cannot manage the rest. Fonda is a dry fish, but his persona has elements of darkness that could have been exploited to add dimension to Scottie's character. I never once believe Stewart as a man in the grip of a grotesque obsession; I would believe it of Fonda. Same with Clift, especially the post-accident Clift, who always looked like he was on the verge of a nervous breakdown, and guilty of some indescribable personal indiscretion.

As for Grace Kelly, she was mousy enough in High Noon, so I think she could pull off the imature teenager. But that is a minor quibble. In the alluring sweepstakes, she wins, hands down. There is a shot of her in Rear Window, leaning into the camera lens, in full close up, in all her stunning Technicolor glory, that tells you all you need to know about Novak's failure to engage my interest in Vertigo. Novak was a talented and attractive young lady, but she was no goddess, and Vertigo needs a goddess.

I've seen Vertigo about ten times. I want to like it. I am going to watch it again, tomorrow, on TCM at 1:30 PM EST. Perhaps I will change my opinion, but I doubt it.

For a far more effective and entertaining Stewart/Novak teaming, try Bell, Book, and Candle! Now that's a movie! :wink: :wink: :wink:

Tony
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Postby Tony » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:48 am

Mido:

I knew the exprssion, but thought dander had domething to do with cats. Thanks!

I like the way you make your points too, but dislike it if I start to agree with them. :lol:

Novak was generally thought of as very sexy in her time, with a really sexy, throaty voice; perhaps one day you will grow into her. (That didn't sound quite right). She will grow onto you? Well, you know what I mean. I know the shot you mean in Rear Window: incredible, but contrived, in my view. Like out of a dream. But I never found Kelly sexy: I found her beautiful, like a china doll. I think, though, she was highly overrated as an actress.

Scotty is obsessed, like all people really in love. The perverse quality is foisted on him by the criminal circumstances and manipulations going on.

But Hitch was a real sicko, as you know, and that's his main attraction.

A friend of mine really lkes Bell Book and Candle, as he's a real Novak fan, but I found it rather weak, though charming. Novak is really good though, and so is Stewart; I wish they'd made more pictures together.

Interestingly, when I was a boy, I didn't like Novak: I think her sexuality scared me: she really puts out the wattage, but she's really romantic too.

I hope you enjoy Vertigo today: remember, it's going to top the Sight and Sound next time, and there must be a reason why. My personal favourite moment is when she enters the restaurant: she doesn't know him, but he knows her: it's love at first sight for him, and she, standing beside him, seems to feel his attraction. Of course, she does know who he is....

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Postby Harvey Chartrand » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:26 pm

There is so much on this thread that I take issue with.
I do agree that VERTIGO should topple CITIZEN KANE from its #1 perch in the next Sight & Sound poll for the best films ever made, as it's time to shake things up a bit and VERTIGO is a far superior film on so many levels, mainly due to the solid script by Alec Coppel and Samuel Taylor, who create characters you care about instead of mouthpieces for various ideological points of view.
Unlike many Welles-directed films, VERTIGO is perfectly cast. You couldn't ask for better romantic chemistry between two stars: 50-year-old James Stewart (who looked extremely handsome and appealing in the role of "Scottie" Ferguson, despite Hitchcock's insulting ageist remarks about him) and 26-year-old Kim Novak. In movies of that era, you could get away with older men chasing after younger women. Today, if Jack Nicholson romances Helen Hunt or Amanda Peet, it's viewed as extremely bad form.
I can't believe someone actually recommended post-car-crash Montgomery Clift for the male lead in VERTIGO. Ferguson is driven to neurotic behavior and a mental breakdown by various stressors and a diabolical conspiracy, whereas the now disfigured and pathetic Clift looked like he was born neurotic. He is a mess of ticks and spasms from the word go (check out THE YOUNG LIONS, released the same year as VERTIGO). It's sad to see this once gifted actor with "the face of a tortured angel" (as Karl Malden described it) trying to adjust to his torn and thickened features, knowing that the god-like Clift of A PLACE IN THE SUN is no more... Hitchcock wanted pre-crash Monty for THE TROUBLE WITH HARRY, even though he didn't enjoy working with him on I CONFESS. In 1954, Clift was still a big draw at the box office and the public was not yet aware of his scandalous and debauched lifestyle.
Tippi Hedren delivered a virtually flawless performance in MARNIE. She was a good actress who carried THE BIRDS and MARNIE after having appeared in only a few commercials and test reels. And yet she was excellent in both pictures – while enduring terrible psychological pressure from the prospect of live birds attacking her... and tension on the set of MARNIE caused by her possessive and controlling mentor. I'd go so far as to say that Tippi Hedren deserved an Oscar nomination for Best Actress for her complex and deeply moving performance in MARNIE, especially when one considers what she had to put up with behind the scenes.

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Postby mido505 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:15 am

I rewatched Vertigo yesterday, and the verdict is...that Bernard Herrmann wrote the greatest score in film history. If I had just closed my eyes and imagined Vertigo, with Herrmann's score blaring in the background, I would vote Vertigo into the number one slot in the Sight and Sound poll. Unfortunately I watched the actual film.

Sorry Tony, I tried. Hated it this time, really hated it. Bad script. Boring. Poorly motivated characters. Unbelievable situations. Rampant stupidity. Psychotic behavior. Sketchy photography. Poor process work. Only Herrmann's sublime score, elevating this disaster into a realm where it does not belong.

Kim Novak is a beautiful, sexy woman. But Hitchcock mummifies her, slathering her with so much makeup that she looks ready for a morgue slab. Was this intentional? Whether it was or was not, it was a mistake. I'm sorry, but I got exactly zero erotic charge out of her. Hitchcock was brutally dismissive of Novack and her performance: "When you get her, you think you're getting a lot, but you're not." I used to blame Novack for her ineffectiveness in the role, but now I blame Hitch. Something in her was too hot for him, and he squelched it down. She wasn't "cold" enough for him.

Stewart is a failure, too. I never for a minute buy his "obsession" with Madeleine. One minute he is tailing Madeleine around San Francisco, the next he is in desparate love and, despite repeated punches on the rewind button, I couldn't figure out how he got there. What the hell does he see in Madeleine? What does she stir in him? She is obviously crazy, and he has been, for most of the narrative, sexless and almost immune to the allure of the opposite sex. I mean, isn't that what the entire subplot with Midge is all about? Because if it is not, why in God's name is Midge even in the picture? Madeleine jumps into the water, and Scottie is smitten. Huh? I don't buy it. Again, I no longer think that this is Stewart's fault; he tries hard, but Hitch and his scriptwriters just sink him. As an aside, I think Stewart was at his best in the scene where Midge reveals the portrait she has painted of herself as Carlotta. His mumbled, repressed fury is spot on, and the type of thing at which Stewart really excelled.

There is, of course, zero chemistry between Stewart and Novak. Their kissing and fumbling and groping is about as passionate as two carp lip-smacking in a fresh water tank, soaring music and circling camera not withstanding. In fact, Stewart looks profoundly uncomfortable during these scenes, and Novak seems to be having a tough time, too. Vera Miles got herself pregnant and ran for the hills when she figured out what Vertigo was all about; did Stewart and Novak figure it out too late? Both of them are fighting the picture, to its detriment.

The great final shot of Vertigo is one of its strengths. Question for you Vertigo fans: does Scottie jump off the roof after Judy, end up insane and in an asylum, or live happily ever after with Midge, cured of his Vertigo?

I agree with Harvey Chartrand, and disagree with Tony, that Tippi Hedren was something special. Inexperienced as she was, she was extraordinary in The Birds and Marnie. I don't like Marnie as a film, but I like Hedren in it. She had that blonde ice queen thing down cold, but could display a genuinely delicate vulnerablility and sensibility hidden beneath the frigid surface. Hedren might not have been able to make Vertigo a success, but she would have made it more interesting.

I also agree with Harvey that it is time that Citizen Kane is knocked out of the number one slot in the Sight and Sound poll. But I think The Trial, or Touch of Evil, or Falstaff should do the trick...

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Glenn Anders
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Postby Glenn Anders » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:27 am

Okay, cats, it's time to return you to the corral for branding.

I'm with Tony about the stature of VERTIGO, and the quality of Kim Novak's performance as Judy Barton/Madeleine Elster. Hitchcock was a man who spent most of his professional career trying to express a sense of guilt, in particular about his desire to control young women, blonde young women. In VERTIGO, he raised that obsession to an almost universal male trait. The picture is his masterpiece, balanced between morality and depravity in a way that shows up the intellectualization of ROPE, the sadism in PSYCHO, and the complete amorality of FRENZY (his last major motion picture, when Hollywood codes had been thrown overboard, and Hitchcock could do as he pleased). The instruments of his triumph in VERTIGO are his shrewd exploitation of strong, silent Jimmy Stewart's nice guy image to illustrate that in male domination, character is indeed fate, coupled with the Director's Georgie Minafer disgust and disappointment at not getting his first choice for a leading lady, which allowed Kim Novak to shoehorn a magnificently subtle interpretation of Judy/Madeleine into Hitchcock's often clumsily expressed theme. Her performance in this dual role illustrates perfectly the difference between who a woman really is and the woman she often has to play for a man -- makeup, clothes, and all -- in conventional Western Society.

Kim Novak, a Midwesterner, drew on her intuitive intelligence, her model's knowledge of variety in makeup and clothes, her sense of Catholic morality which she shared with Hitchcock, and her resentment at how Hollywood regarded her physical attributes rather than her artistic ambitions.

It is she who made Hitchcock's obsession the dilemma of Modern Woman.

I met Kim (the liberty of a first name seldom taken here) only once, and that briefly, but the electricity of my self-introduction is still with me. It occurred in 1996, when in her mid-sixties, she attended a charity premiere of the Restored VERTIGO at the Castro Theater in San Francisco, accompanied on stage by the restoration editors and Hitchcock's daughter, Patricia. Everything that has been said here in her praise was reinforced in my eyes by that meeting. Macresarf1 gave an account of the memorable brief encounter, as some may know, in his 2000 review of VERTIGO:

http://www.epinions.com/mvie-review-7EA ... 8256AE-bd1

If mido505 still maintained his attitude toward Miss Novak after a touch of hands with her such as mine, we should have to send him to that place Hitch reserved for Gregory Peck in SPELLBOUND (and perhaps later, for Jimmy Stewart's "Scottie" Ferguson)!

[Which suddenly reminds me, I see: Mido, sorry, but in your latest viewing of VERTIGO, you seem to have entirely missed Detective Scottie Ferguson's motivation: After accidentally contributing to the death of a subordinate in VERTIGO's opening sequence, Scottie is guilt-ridden. His vertigo is the symptom of an unrecognized deep depression, verging on psychosis. It should be clear that formerly he and Midge had a normal, very close long term relationship, which she is unsuccessfully trying to revive. Scottie is therefore a perfect mark for his ruthlessly conniving old friend, the equally controlling Gavin Elster (Tom Helmore), who is plotting the death of his rich wife Madeleine, and inadvertently, the spiritual death of his country girl/paramour, Model Judy Barton. Both victim and victimizer, in the grip of circumstances, Scottie must act out his original psychological "murder" again and again. And of course, Judy must continue to play out her part, too. In answer to your question, mido505, in case VERTIGO is not all a nightmare/delusion, which is a possibility, I would think that, third time unlucky, Scottie would subsequently have been committed to a mental hospital.]

Harvey, much as I admire VERTIGO, I would not displace CITIZEN KANE by it for Best Picture Ever. I should think that CHINATOWN would be a better candidate because the film's similar VERTIGO theme is given a much broader application, and Jack Nicholson's Private-Eye Scottie-like anti-hero and John Huston's LA version of Gavin Elster are not so stylized. And of course, it has the advantage of another unhappy, much more primally exploited blonde character, Evelyn Mulwray, superbly portrayed by Faye Dunaway.

Now, to wrap things back up with "The Fountain of Youth," let me call your attention to a new movie, CHEMICAL WEDDING, by Film Editor Julian Doyle and Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden fame, which has recently been released in the UK. It immediately struck me that the prospect of Welles as Jimmy Stewart's Rupert in ROPE was joined in unholy matrimony within CHEMICAL WEDDING, a picture which is either being condemned as of execrable taste and execution, praised for being a return to Hammer Horror Film glory, dismissed as over-the-top Ken Russell-like fun -- or all three.

Briefly, CHEMICAL WEDDING relates how, in 1947, two young Cambridge dons witness in an English nursing home the apoplectic death of Aleister Crowley (John Shrapnell), the self-styled "Great Beast," writer, magician, charlatan, drug addict, sexual pervert of immense proportions, sometime British secret agent keeping tabs on Yanks, Nazis and Soviets. [Crowley is in the news again because of the long-time rumor that Barbara Bush, mother of Our President, was his 1925 love child by Pauline Robinson Pierce, free-spirited, cult-loving wife to Marvin Pierce, the Publisher of McCall's and Red Book magazines.] Sixty years later, the dons persuade a cybernetics genius, combining a super-computer with DNA brain matter, to reincarnate within the present day Great Beast Crowley, dressed in a violet velvet suit and fedora hat, who proceeds to recite his typical doggerel ["To pee or not to pee/That is the question] while urinating on hapless students. A young, red-haired Judy Barton-like beauty, ace reporter of the Cambridge student newspaper, gets hot on the case and . . . .

The perfect touch to this over-ripe sausage for us wellesnetters is that the reincarnated Aleister Crowley is played by our own Simon Callow, chewing scenery, co-eds, and anything else he can get his teeth into. [Most critics say, he is the best thing in the picture.] In any case, Callow may find it ethically difficult to continue to look down his nose at "Orson Welles the Ham Actor," in the next volume of his Welles' biography (which one writer says he hopes Callow will devote his ill-gotten CHEMICAL WEDDING salary to).

Glenn
Last edited by Glenn Anders on Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Harvey Chartrand
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Postby Harvey Chartrand » Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:54 pm

Here is what Curtis Harrington had to say about Kim Novak and the otherworldly spell she casts in VERTIGO. This is an excerpt from a long interview with the late director that appeared in The Dark Side Magazine:

TDS: What’s the story behind The Pyx (1973)? Weren’t you set to direct this horror/crime picture?
CH: James Mason agreed to be in it. We had a beautiful script written by the playwright Alfred Hayes (The Girl on the Via Flaminia). We were unable to secure the financing right away. We were hoping to get Kim Novak to play the call girl and that would give us the financing. Kim was about 40 then and would have been perfect for the part, but she read the script and said the part wasn’t big enough for her. I thought Kim Novak was really stupid, but there you are – that’s my opinion. She turned it down and we didn’t know where to go from there.

So we lost our rights to The Pyx. Later on, a female Canadian producer picked up the rights and developed the property and made the picture with another director.

I thought Karen Black was totally miscast as the hooker. My interpretation of the prostitute in The Pyx was that she had to be like Kim Novak in Vertigo – a girl who is beautiful and sexy and sort of distant and delicate – all things that Karen Black is not. Karen Black is bold and brassy and earthy. She was the antithesis of what I envisioned the part to be. The whole point of the story is that this detective, in investigating this girl’s death, in effect falls in love with her, like falling in love with a shadow or a ghost. So who would fall in love with Karen Black when investigating her death? Nobody! She was coarse, compared to Kim Novak. It’s very rare that you find a girl who is sexy and has that haunting, distant quality. Kim Novak had it. She was very rare in that regard. That’s why Hitchcock cast her in Vertigo. He saw all that in her. And I would have done something wonderful with Kim Novak in The Pyx! Unfortunately, I was never able to meet with Kim Novak and discuss the part with her.

The version of The Pyx that made it to the screen was very badly done and didn’t bear any resemblance to our screenplay, other than the parallel storylines of the police investigation and the events leading up to the death of the call girl. Our script followed John Buell’s novel much more closely. We kept cutting between the present and the past – from the investigation to what happened to the murdered girl on the day of her death. That was the structure of The Pyx and the rapid alternation of past and present events was one of the things that fascinated me about this project. But it was not meant to be…

TDS: Enough time has passed that you could dust off your old script and direct a remake of The Pyx as you originally conceptualized the story.
____

Wishful thinking. Curtis Harrington died in May 2007.

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Glenn Anders
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Postby Glenn Anders » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:14 pm

From Curtis Harrington's description, it sounds as if the plot of THE PYX would have been similar to that of LAURA. Kim would have been just right, then. She has the haunting quality.

I rather like Karen Black, too. She's a worker, and very bright. Still a star, albeit in "indie" movies, at near 70. But from what Harrington says of her, perhaps it is fitting that she starred in Hitchcock's final film, also fittingly titled: FAMILY PLOT.

Karen Black said (in part) about Hitchcock: "Overall, very avuncular, although he did kiss me one day in a very sexual way, but the rest of the time he was very avuncular. He was funny and shrewd, and knew exactly what he wanted and knew if you were creating that."

Glenn

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Postby ToddBaesen » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:58 pm

Glenn:

Your mention of Aleister Crowley being the possible Grand Father of the current President led me to look up some of Crowley's own writings to determine if he ever mentioned Pauline Robinson, Mr. Bush's Grand Mother. I could find no reference to her, but I did come across this interesting piece Crowley wrote about the movies for VANITY FAIR. Perhaps the current editor of VANITY FAIR will want to investigate the paternity claims regarding Mr. Bush further.

Strangely, Crowley on a trip to California also visited the redwood trees at Big Basin, Scots Valley around this same time, where we wrote a poem called AT THE BIG TREES, SANTA CRUZ. Of course, this is also where Alfred Hitchcock would later film the redwood tree scenes for VERTIGO.

Anyway, this article Crowley wrote in 1917 seems to echo all the problems Welles would face in Hollywood 23 years later, once George Schafer, his RKO patron was de-throned.

______________________________


WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE MOVIES?

The Industry Seems to Be in a Critical Condition -- and Perhaps It Deserves to Be


By ALEISTER CROWLEY

VANITY FAIR - July, 1917


It is bad taste -- and not the World War -- which is killing the movies. Bad taste in every direction. In the first place, the wretches in power, when they get a perfectly competent author -- will not trust him at all. The great writer's story has always been a "movie" -- on the screen of the author's mind. It was complete in every picture, before he ever put pen to paper. But the producing wretches do not know that. They do not realize that he has done the thing right. They do not even realize this in the case of a famous novel -- or play -- where a long success has proved it. There preposterous people do not understand that they insult the public and make themselves ridiculous into the bargain when they offer to "improve" Victor Hugo; to bring Dumas "up-to-date"; to put "punch" into Ibsen; or to "alter" history a bit in order to give Joan of Arc an earthly lover.

Some months back two wealthy gentlemen were lunching at the Knickerbocker Hotel, in New York, where all movie magnates seem to make a habit of foregathering. They were trying to think of a book to "film." A pause. One suggested Victor Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame. "A grand sweet story! Some story! Some punch! Some pep!" A longer pause. "Say, why, in our film, shouldn't that hunchback marry the beautiful gipsy chicken?" "But, say, we can't have that little pippin tied up to a hunchback." "I got it, Bo, we'll get a Johns Hopkins guy to straighten him out on the operating table." "Say, you're some artist, Al."

And so, alas, it all came about.

These two master minds could not foresee that everyone who had read Hugo's great story would leave the theatre foaming at the mouth, raving for blood.

Similarly with Hedda Gabler. They had to improve on Ibsen's great curtain, and bring in George Tesman to confront Brack, who faints on hearing the pistol shot, and asks "Why should you faint at my wife's death?" with all the air of one who proposes an amusing riddle!

One could go on for hours describing the fatuity of the movie men. It is not that their ideas are necessarily wrong in themselves, but that they are inappropriate -- and in bad taste. They forget that the author has thought out all his contrasts and values, and even a better author could not alter them without destroying them utterly.

Suppose that I make up my mind that one of Charles Condor's painted women on a fan lacks distinctness? Do I call in Zuloaga to put a new head on her? Zuloaga will paint me in a fine head, no doubt; but he is certain to throw out the rest of Condor's picture. In the realm of painting I much prefer Gaugin to John Lavery, but I should not ask the former to paint a Samoan head on the shoulders of the portrait of "Lady Plantagenet-Tudor" by the latter. Consider the diffident reverence with which a great artist like Sir A. Quiller-Couch finished a novel by Stevenson -- and always from the master's notes.

It has often been said that the worst author knows his business better than the best critic, just as the feeblest father will beget more children than the biggest naval gun. But in the movies we have men who are such atrociously bad critics that they permit the most shocking solecisms in almost every scene.

See the wealthy New York man of fashion, dressing for a dinner at Mrs De Peyster Stuyvesant's! See how deftly he shoots on his detachable cuffs and snaps on his elastic tie. See how charmingly he wears his derby hat with his evening coat. He even retains it, possibly fearing that it may be stolen in Mrs Stuyvesant's drawing-room, which is, of course, furnished in the manner of the gentleman's lounge on a Fall River boat.

In this connection let us observe how the Russian Ballet gets its splendid effect of art. There is a true and tried artist for the scenery, another for the arrangement of the dances, another for the music, another for the costumes, and so on. All conspire, all contribute, the one careful never to impede the work of the others. The result is an artistic unity. Tinker with the whole, bring in one inharmonious element, and the entire conception goes by the board. A Zulu chief is a magnificent object -- but you must not exchange his gum-ring for Charlie Chaplin's derby hat.

Modern opera is suffering in the same way. The only pains taken at the Metropolitan, let us say, is with the hiring of the singers. The same old scenic conventions must do, the same old wardrobe traditions, the same old lighting arrangements, and the same antiquated ballets. The result is that an "art impression" is never made. People go away, praising the orchestra and the singers; but they are not stunned, carried out of themselves by the glory of witnessing a really artistic operatic creation. There is everywhere evident this same blind fatuity in the movies.

To return to the question of the author. Who invented modern musical comedy? Gilbert and Sullivan. Gilbert insisted -- made it a point in every contract or license -- that his libretto was to have no cuts, no modifications, no gags; even his minutest stage directions were to be followed implicitly -- Take it or leave it. Most of his stuff is therefore as strong and sound and playable today as it ever was.

But his successors have not his willpower. Today every inartistic man in a movie production must needs have a finger in the artistic pie. Some of their suggestions may possibly be good, some bad; but the unity and coherence of the author's conceptions are lost, and the outcome is a muddle. Ne sutor ultra crepidam. Too many cooks spoil the broth.

In the movies this confusion is accentuated to the point of dementia. What costumes! What furniture! What ladies! What ballrooms! What clubs! What love scenes! What butlers and footmen! What dinner tables! What débutantes! What boots and slippers! What coiffures! What jewelry! What manners!

Several times, of late, I have seen films where the tinkers had improved a good novel out of existence. The beginning, end, and middle of the story had been dexterously amputated or "arranged." We were not informed of the relationship existing between the various characters; the motives for their acts were utterly obscure. A "situation" would ultimately arise -- and then, instead of a dénouement, the film stopped suddenly!
One felt as if one had somehow got into a lunatic asylum.

Another point is the question of "new stuff." One enterprising movie manager did actually go so far as to engage a set of competent artists -- at $150 per diem, all told -- to get out new ideas for him: original costumes, lights, scenery, and all the rest of it. They produced the new ideas. "Fine! Fine!" cried he. Then a horrid doubt seized him. "But this isn't a bit like what we've been used to!" he stammered. "No," said they, "it's new. You said 'new,' you know!" "That's right, I did," he cried, "but, say, the public wouldn't stand for this, it's too new."

O, purblind crew of miserable men, cannot you see that the only way to succeed in the movies, or in any art, is to get the men who really know how, to create new effects of art, and then to trust them implicitly? The worst author is better, as an author, than the best "producer" or "director," however highly paid, unless he sticks to his business of visualizing, with sympathy and fidelity, the author's conceptions and ideals.

The only good films, the only popular films, are those by living authors of repute, who have somehow been able to insist upon having their conceptions literally carried out, and not meddled with by a band of misguided and inartistic managers.

Millions of dollars have already been lost in the movies by the many errors indicated above; and it may be well to point out that the public recognizes that the business is everywhere approaching a grave crisis. You, gentlemen, who are still making money, take heed: you are going to lose it in another few months unless you learn a little something about good taste in matters of art.

If only a man could found a "Famous Authors Film Producing Company" and give the authors a fair chance and a free hand, and then employ real artists for the costumes -- a real tailor for the men's clothes -- real decorators for the indoor sets; real ladies to look after the manners of the actors, and real architects to design the houses, he would be able to take up the whole of the Liberty Loan out of his first year's profits.
Todd

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Postby Glenn Anders » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:40 pm

Well, Todd, you show us the kind of screed that Simon Callow may have drawn upon for his depiction of Aleister Crowley in CHEMICAL WEDDING. A little Wilde combined with a dash of Ambrose Bierce (who, coincidentally, disappeared from San Francisco about the time of Crowley's visit to America). There is a lot more, evidently, because, years later, Crowley died just at a time when Rock Bands were beginning to fulminate under the surface of Post-War II Britain, hence Bruce Dickinson's longtime interest in the man and his philosophy. All kinds of stuff about Crowley's jealousy over the rise of Lafayette Ron Hubbard's Scientology cult, and someone named Jack Parsons.

It seems strange that a man so interested in influential gatherings of Occultists as Crowley was, so well connected during the First World War through British Intelligence with American power brokers, would not have wangled a visit to Bohemian Grove. If so, that would have set up another connection between him and the Bush and Pierce famlies, all interested in the Occult, Eugenics, and other arcane subjects, long before Our President's grandfather, Prescott Bush, helped finance the Nazis' rise to power, or pleaded nolo contendere to a charge of Trading with the Enemy, in 1942.

I cannot say if there is truth behind the gossip that Pauline Pierce gave birth to one of Crowley's many love children, in this case, Barbara Pierce Bush, but one look at pictures of Aleister Crowley and Barbara Bush, side by side, would heighten the suspicion. We know that Pauline Pierce left her two young children behind to go visit her lubricious friend Nora O'Hara Harris, wife of the notorious womanizer and publisher, Frank Harris, in Paris. The three were joined there by Aleister Crowley in late 1924, after he had been thrown out of Italy by Mussolini, when an Englishman died accidentally during a pseudo-religious sexual ritual in Sicily.

Ten months later, back in the States, Pauline gave birth to Barbara, her third child, future wife of President George H.W. Bush, future mother of President George W. Bush.

The story reminds me a bit of ROSEMARY'S BABY, and I've just learned that Pauline Robinson Pierce died in 1949, when Publisher Husband, Marvin, drove their car into a wall, after rumors were floated that she was having an affair with General Dwight Eisenhower, who (by then) Senator Prescott Bush was trying to persuade to run for the Presidency, as a Republican. But if we follow the ritual mythology inherent in "The Fountain of Youth," and now, in CHEMICAL WEDDING, both Pauline Pierce and The Great Beast would have gone to their graves, satisfied. After a long series of misfires on Aleister Crowley's part -- Lola Zaza, Amado, Isis, Hecate, Poupee, Dionysus, Aleister Attaturk Crowley, etc, even Todd Baesen Crowley (rumored) -- the Anti-Christ had been safely delivered in July of 1946.

It's all lore, of course, Todd, but there is a hell of a lot of Bohemian-type tinder in California, America, and the World, these days. The rumors have been going on long before CHEMICAL WEDDING, and no doubt, will continue long after, too.

For instance, Todd, have you ever thought that the name of your favorite watering hole, The Ha-RA Club, might have a more sinister meaning? What about that old colleague of yours, and his interesting name? Have you ever lined up pictures of Ha-Ra Club Barman Carl Kickery, Barbara Bush, and Aleister Crowley, side by side? And is it true that over the cellar door of The Ha-Ra Club is the motto, "Weaving Spiders Come Not Here"?

Just a thought.

More research is needed.

The Bohemian Club meets in Sonoma County next week. How much would a picture of Larry French and Vice President Dick Cheney, dressed as druids, be worth? I wonder.

Glenn
Last edited by Glenn Anders on Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tony
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Postby Tony » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:44 pm

Just as an aside to the paternity of George W. Bush, I've always thought it an interesting thought experiment to imagine what would have happened had George Schaeffer not been dethroned; would Welles's story have had a happy ending, or would he have ended up much the same? This much is for sure (almost): Welles would have returned to the Mercury theatre still in their offices, and a very pissed off Schaeffer. The Ambersons would have been released as it was, since it had already been released by the time Welles returned. Schaeffer would have had a heart to heart with Welles about making more commercial pictures (as per his telegrams) and "It's All True" probably would have been released, in some form. "Journey into Fear" would still have been released (in some form) and Welles probably would have released a few more RKO pictures, though how commercial they would have been is anybody's guess.

I guess Schaeffer brought Welles to Hollywood, and when Schaeffer lost his job, Welles lost his place in Hollywood, at least as a director, save for "The Stranger" (a commercial attempt), "Macbeth" (Yate's arty attempt) and "Touch of Evil" (directing by default).

Welles always said the Brazil episode was the end of his career.

PS: Harvey: thanks for that Harrington piece: some nice descriptions of Novak's magic.

Mido: All I can say is: if you can't understand how Scotty can fall in love with Kim Novak, then...well, I can't say anything!

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Postby Glenn Anders » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:11 pm

Excellent, Tony!

And in your own subtle way, are you attempting to tie the earlier and later careers of Orson Welles to his Faustian bargain with George Schaefer and RKO through magic, Voodoo, Aleister Crowley, the Harlem Macbeth critic's death after a spell, and the witch doctor's curse on IT'S ALL TRUE, when RKO cut off the funding? It's only a hop-scotch from there to "The Fountain of Youth," ROSEMARY'S BABY, Barbara Bush, the Neocon Cabal, and Our Anti-Christ.

Is it just by accident that we happened to stumble across these connections yesterday, July 6th, the quiet birthday of George W. Bush?

I think not.

Remember the long strand of red yarn, and the Witch Doctor's Curse. Our President wants more money to carry on his Great Crusade!

We all have to work on this infernal plot, Tony. If we can't get Simon Callow for our Van Helsing, you will have to take the part. Bring Hammer and Mallet.

I pray it was by accident that you neglected THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI, who is sometimes seen at The Ha-Ra Club with Todd Baesen!

Glenn

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Postby Glenn Anders » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:19 pm

Tony wrote:Just as an aside to the paternity of George W. Bush, I've always thought it an interesting thought experiment to imagine what would have happened had George Schaeffer not been dethroned; would Welles's story have had a happy ending, or would he have ended up much the same? This much is for sure (almost): Welles would have returned to the Mercury theatre still in their offices, and a very pissed off Schaeffer. The Ambersons would have been released as it was, since it had already been released by the time Welles returned. Schaeffer would have had a heart to heart with Welles about making more commercial pictures (as per his telegrams) and "It's All True" probably would have been released, in some form. "Journey into Fear" would still have been released (in some form) and Welles probably would have released a few more RKO pictures, though how commercial they would have been is anybody's guess.

I guess Schaeffer brought Welles to Hollywood, and when Schaeffer lost his job, Welles lost his place in Hollywood, at least as a director, save for "The Stranger" (a commercial attempt), "Macbeth" (Yate's arty attempt) and "Touch of Evil" (directing by default).

Welles always said the Brazil episode was the end of his career.

PS: Harvey: thanks for that Harrington piece: some nice descriptions of Novak's magic.

Mido: All I can say is: if you can't understand how Scotty can fall in love with Kim Novak, then...well, I can't say anything!


I join with Tony and Harvey in admiration of Kim Novak . . . but once again, we are neglecting mido505's favorite pairing of Jimmy Stewart and Kim: BELL, BOOK, AND CANDLE.

The ring, like a vice, is closed! Todd Baesen was not channeling Aleister Crowley on the Anti-Christ's Birthday for nothing.

The coven gathers next week in Sonoma County's Bohemian Grove.

Glenn

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Postby Alan Brody » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:32 pm

Bohemian Grove. Isn't that where Nelson Rockefeller created Richard Nixon?

Thanks for that fascinating Crowley article, Todd. I'd never heard that Barbara Bush theory before, but she does look a bit like him. I think it was Barbara Leaming's book that said that Michael Macliamior's sister and her husband were followers of Crowley, as was Macliammior's theatrical mentor Anew McMaster. And that Welles spent a summer working with Macmaster when he was in Ireland. I wonder if Welles ever met Crowley during this time. At any rate, Chemical Wedding is now on my list of movies to see.


My understanding is that Rupert's entire volte-face at the climax of Rope was rewritten to better accomodate the familiar Stewart image.

I'm not familiar with the original play, but that sounds plausible. I agree with you that Henry Fonda in OUATITW was one of the all-time great monsters in film, but I think that was partly because his film persona was so similar to Stewart's. It's more chilling to watch nice guys become evil. Stewart actually did play a murderer in The Greatest Show On Earth, four years after Rope, but he was in clown makeup the whole time.

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Postby Harvey Chartrand » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:25 pm

Another reason why Curtis Harrington's THE PYX project foundered:

Curtis Harrington: "I never worked with Joan Crawford, although I suggested her for the part of a madame who manages a call girl ring in The Pyx because she had a certain hardness about her and because I was trying to boost the marquee power for the picture. But James Mason, who would have played the detective investigating the call girl’s murder, told me he could never work with Joan Crawford. So the project fell through and Harvey Hart ended up making The Pyx in Montreal with Karen Black." (from The Dark Side interview)


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