Ambersons, Kane, Hurst, Bob "Axeman" Wise & other crud

[lebiglebowski]

Ok before anyone reads my mess, I just want to say that I am an awful writer and am sure to make many grammatical errors etc. but I just wanted to say a few things about my favorite Director, Actor and Speaker of ALL time!

The following is just the rambling rants of a frustrated Orson Welles fan. So if you don't want to hear complaining and whining all in poorly structured text then I recommend stopping now.

Orson Welles was tragically misunderstood and mostly mistreated... When I think of how ANYONE could even consider touching a masterpiece like Ambersons with the thought of cutting... I get sick! Had anyone at RKO had half a brain .....let me restate that , had anyone at RKO had any decency at all Ambersons would have never been cut to death, truncated, dumped on the public at the worst possible time (beginning of the war) and virtually destroyed, not to mention Orson would have held the opportunity to make as many great films as some of my other fav. directors like John Ford or Alfred Hitchcock that he had been given prior to Kane.

Sometimes I sit and think of all the Welles films that would/could/should exist today ... COMPLETE!!.... Then I begin to cry..

Out of all the tragic stories in Hollywood, parents taking advantage of their child stars finances, actresses like Gene Tierney spending time in mental hospitals etc., Judy Garland being kicked off of "Annie Get Your Gun" and out of MGM at only approx. 28 years old!! Great actors like Ty Power dying at a young 44 years of age... None of these hurt me half as bad as the Unbelievably tragic story or Orson's life.

Now don't get me wrong I am extremely thankful for: Touch of Evil, Mr. Arkadin, Othello, The Trial, The Lady from Shanghai, The Stranger, F For Fake, Journey Into Fear, The Magnificent Ambersons, Citizen Kane, Falstaff(Chimes at Midnight) and others... not to mention all the films he acted in, one of my Favorites being Graham Greene and Carol Reed's The Third Man.. I just wish that Orson would have been treated halfway decent after he upset the king of newspapers at the time (and in my opinion the king of a-holes!) William Randolph Hearst... Hearst apparently was quoted as saying that he would have not been as upset about the portrayal of himself on screen however the portrayal of Marion Davies was one that he could not let stand.. Well thank you for being such a "knight in shining armor" there Hurst! You helped take no telling how much art away from many generations of Welles art lovers to come. What a chivalrous thing to do!!..

Sorry don't mean to bum everyone out, its just that when I became a Welles fan (Immediately following the first time I saw a Welles film!) and began learning more about what happened immediately following Kane and throughout Orson's life, I was in shock.. Shocked that one minute RKO realized Orson's potential and gave him the contract he deserved and should have had for at least a full decade or more, then the next minute he offended WRH and RKO changed its damn stationary!!(showmanship before genius..) and basically took away the "contract"! WOW! Talk about not only taking away a mans opportunity to get his films made but also playing psychological warfare with the poor soul! Orson would never be the same.

If anyone has seen everything from Kane to Chimes at Midnight and/or documentaries like "One Man Band" or "The Battle Over Citizen Kane" or has read Peter Bogdanovich's book or anything that Pauline Kael has written... or is just a Welles fan and would like to write their own "few words" on Orson, his life, his films, his trials and tribulations etc. (whatever you like..), then please add your thoughts to this thread. I would like to hear what other Welles fans like myself have to say.. Does it hurt anyone else the way it hurts me that masterpieces like The Magnificent Ambersons were destroyed and then dumped on the market at the worst time partly because the studio previewed Ambersons at a couple of odd lil theaters along with a musical comedy of sorts and at odd hours! So there was no way that those audiences were capable (at the time, right after a goofy musical!) to review a masterpiece like The Magnificent Ambersons! Well those audiences spoke... and we all know that since Orson was in South America at the time, one of the men I despise most Robert Wise Cut Ambersons to the liking of RKO and according to the opinion of a few people in a couple of odd theaters that were there (at the late show) to see a Friggin musical comedy! So in closing I just want to say a big Thank you to RKO, Robert Wise and most of all to those few people that were lucky enough to be at those oddly timed/oddly located previews of Ambersons that decided to hand Robert Wise the axe.. THANKS!

Oh well I would just be happy to have a region 1 release of the cut version of The Magnificent Ambersons on dvd (let alone bluray). If WHV really plans on releasing a region 1 dvd I wish they would end all the speculation and give us a date.

I won't rant any further over other chopped up masterpieces etc. as I would like to give some fellow Welles fans a chance to rant and rave.


BTW if anyone hears any concrete news about Warner releasing a region 1 dvd of Ambersons please email me: LebigLebowski@yahoo.com

Thank you!

[Roger Ryan]

Welcome "lebiglebowski" and thanks for contributing your rant!

Hollywood's misunderstanding of Welles is such an ingrained part of the man's story that it is almost impossible to view the man's work apart from it. Suffice to say that the reasons for Welles' misfortune are a lot more complex than an aging newspaper tycoon banishing the advertising of KANE in his press. Ultimately, Welles' films didn't make much money and Hollywood was hesitant to continue working with a filmmaker whose work was not turning a profit. What is amazing (and the principal reason we are gathered here) is that despite the underwhelming financial performance of his work, Welles kept at it with or without studio support.

I agree that it is tragic that AMBERSONS was cut to ribbons and that RKO did not have the foresight to preserve the initial long cut of the film. But at the time everyone involved was panic-stricken including Welles' own people. I think it's also important to add that a good 40% of the respondents who attended the early previews thought the film was good to excellent, a couple even considered it among the best films ever made (and these, as you say, were people who were not expecting to see AMBERSONS). What I'm getting at is that there were so many factors that caused that particular film to be recut that I don't know if it's fair to blame one or two specific persons. The same is true of the rest of Welles' film career.

I think it's best to put aside the anger and appreciate what was created and has survived. Welles was prolific in so many areas (not just film) that his work and ideas can entertain and enlighten us for a lifetime. Twenty-some years after his death, people are still talking about him as a major entertainment figure of the 20th century. That's a success story.

[tonyw]

Id like to add my welcome also and encourage you to read the excellent material on this site which is a great resource and will enable you to admire a Welles struggling against adversity even more

[lebiglebowski]

First of all just let me say thank you to Roger Ryan and TonyW. for your welcome to the site.. Next I would like to say to Roger that I do understand exactly what you are getting at in regards to Ambersons *Not all Robert Wise, or one particular person's fault*, and I also get what you are saying about Welles career not being affected by one negative force, but Many! It is definitely a tragic story, quite possibly because we love the man and his work so dearly it makes the story that much more haunting and disturbing.

That being said I do feel that (and I won't name names but the powers go all the way to the top!, and I am guessing you all know what I mean by that) that Orson was "blacklisted" in a way that was not only unfair but also extremely sad. Now like Roger was saying Orson did have a sort of "Charlie Brown" type "rain cloud" following him around, for example his films not being previewed properly, then his films being cut (not to his liking), and stuff like being recruited to shoot a film for "good neighbor" policies etc... it just seems when you look at all of these and add in all of the other things like RKO giving up on Orson after barely 2 films (The two greatest films in American film making history... and high running for film making history world-wide.. Ambersons and Kane)...


I guess I get the feeling that if Orson would've had one or two Extremely important people on his side and that recognized his genius then I believe just like the "son of the big studio" gets to have multiple chances etc... Orson would have made several more films that I am certain would have been on the level of Ambersons and Kane.

Now a lot of my beliefs could be wishful thinking and some of it could be my way of defending my hero's honor ??? I realize he was at time very difficult and was almost impossible to reason with on something that he had already made up his mind on. However with all of his faults one has to wonder what might have been... especially if Orson would have had a reputation like Hitchcock for making money at the box office or if he had been as wealthy as Howard Hughes..LOL! wouldn't that have solved some issues! Well I guess its just like I was telling my wife the other night.. Had I done one thing different the morning of the day I met her, then we would have never met! because we were both only at the specific location that we met for a over lapping time of maybe 4 or 5 minutes.. So had I woken up late that morning ...or if I had made that second cup of coffee.. We would have probably never met (at least not when we did). This same logic can be observed when thinking of Orson and his tragic stories.. Had anything happened any differently like for instance had Orson inherited like 50 million dollars.. then he may have not gone into radio when he did.. which would have meant he wouldn't have done "war of the worlds" when he did.. which would mean no Citizen Kane! YIKES!

So I guess you have to take the good with the bad.. and boy we know that Orson (at least in regards to his career) sure had some bad times.. where he was broke financially.. but not in spirit.. and thats the one of the things that I admire most about Orson.. Not the fact that he was quiet possibly the greatest filmmaker of our times, but the fact that he kept trying.. I mean the man was wiling to humble himself to the point of doing that damn frozen peas recording and of course Paul Mason commercials etc.. just to put together a lil bit of cash to shoot a few more scenes of a film like "The Other Side of the Wind"..

Well I do believe I have rambled enough for today.. I hope to hear more replies on Orson's trials and what elements you all think may have helped or hurt his career.. So please be sure to drop some rants of your own.



I was listening to a song that made me think of Orson the other day.. Its Don McLean's Vincent ... Now even though he is talking about Vincent, the other day I was reading Bogdanovich's book and listening so at the time it was about Orson.. Her eis the link to the tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dipFMJckZOM

Note to Orson: Orson Welles wherever you are I just want you to know that you didn't waste a second in my opinion and I enjoy your body of work just as much as if they had left it all the way you wanted it .. Thank you!


Thanks!

[Dan]

The whole history of Ambersons is an interesting topic. You might enjoy these items regarding the film and the various facts and rumors surrounding it:

Wellesnet

Ambersons.com

Home Theater Forum

[lebiglebowski]

Hey thanks Dan!! Actually I have read many posts on HTF and I have also read many posts here on Wellesnet. Now that Ambersons site I had not been to... I had been told about it once before but forgot about it... I am going to go dive into the info they have @ that Ambersons site. I am actually watching "The Battle Over Citizen Kane".. and am on a Kane research kick.. I thought I knew every detail there was to know about Welles, Kane and the Making of etc... but it seems like I am always hearing a new bit of information which may or may not be true..

Thanks again Dan for telling me about the Ambersons site and if you know any good Kane sites (besides Wellesnet, imdb, HTF etc) then please let me know.

Dan, what is your opinion on the whole Warner, Ambersons, "good elements found", post on Turner Classic Movies.com etc.. ?? I really would like to know whether or not WHV actually plans on releasing Ambersons (supposedly with Journey Into Fear???) either at the end of this year or the first of next year... If you get any concrete info... or any info at all please do pass it on to me.

Thanks!

[Glenn Anders]

Hi, lebiglebowski: Welcome!

My belief is that a couple of people on the board have made some contribution to the promised Warner MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS/JOURNEY INTO FEAR package, but why it has not come out is a mystery. Possibly, there has been a hang-up, or perhaps new material has surfaced. It's hard to say, and I gather the people involved believe it unwise to say much prematurely, something we should all consider. If it is to come out in 2008, I would think it would have to be announced in the next few weeks. We may have to be patient until next year, another thing we get used to.

Stay with the board, and you'll be among the first to hear the anticipated news, I'm sure.

Glenn

[Dan]

Regarding Amberson on DVD. In early 2007 Warner stated in the Home Theater Forum chat that Ambersons would be released on DVD sometime in 2008. I take "good elements" to mean good elements of the 89 minute version. That TCM posting is a hoax of some sort.

From the 2007 HTF Warner Chat:

[PeterNichols] All's well that ends Welles... My subject is Orson Welles. When will WB release The Magnificent Ambersons and/or Journey Into Fear? Or heck, any other Orson Welles related stuff? Including HD.

[WARNER] We have finally found good elements on AMBERSONS, and plan to release both AMBERSONS and JOURNEY in 2008.

Full HTF Chat transcript - http://www.hometheaterforum.com/chat/warner07.txt

[Dan]

Hi, lebiglebowski: Welcome!
...My belief is that a couple of people on the board have made some contribution to the promised Warner MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS/JOURNEY INTO FEAR package, but why it has not come out is a mystery...
Glenn

Interesting info. O.K. you guys, 'fess up! What's the delay with Ambersons?