Amberson rumor on the web

[Jeff Wilson]

Robert Harris is the guy who headed up the restorations of Lawrence of Arabia and Vertigo amongst others. Presumably he does not wish to alienate studio contacts by blabbing whatever he knows.

[nhu]

So this Harris archivist is with Universal?

Thanks for the curt tone, archivist. Curiosity not allowed.

The HTF forum indicates that the industry participants in many cases sign non-disclosure agreements with the studios. I didn't the reply was curt, just brief.

[nhu]

That's good enough for me! Uncut Ambersons, here we come!!

I thought that for a second myself. But let's face it the missing footage was destroyed, and it's destruction is well-documented. Nothing is impossible BUT finding the lost Ambersons footage is a close to totally impossible as we can get.

[mido505]

Robert Harris is a restoration saint, and is normally anything but reticent. His column at Digital Bits is brilliant, and esssential reading for any film lover: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/ ... index.html

If Harris isn't talking there is a good reason for it. As for the destruction of Ambersons being well documented, unless someone has an interview with the guy who actually destroyed the footage, anything is possible. A memo is an order, not proof that the order was complied with.

I personally believe that Welles' Brazilian workprint of Ambersons was shipped back with the It's All True footage (also at one time believed to have been junked), and has been sitting in cans in plain sight for 70 years. I also believe that other Amberson materials, such as the original negative, were hidden and not destroyed.

A lot of people think that if the uncut Ambersons had been found, the information would have been trumpeted to the high heavens. I think not. If material has been found, it is very likely in atrocious shape, and the powers that be would not want to raise undo expectations that they then are unable to meet. Sometimes no news is good news.

[nhu]

A lot of people think that if the uncut Ambersons had been found, the information would have been trumpeted to the high heavens. I think not. If material has been found, it is very likely in atrocious shape, and the powers that be would not want to raise undo expectations that they then are unable to meet. Sometimes no news is good news.

I disagree. Warner would have no reason to keep it under wraps, even if it was in very bad shape. There is a small market for DVDs like Ambersons so Warner would have announced that they have found one of the rarest of the rare to build interest in the product. Even if what was found is beyond restoration, an announcement would only help sell DVDs. Only time will tell.

[bord]

I'm as skeptical as can be, but Robert Harris doesn't refuse to answer a question unless he knows something and can't say. I don't think the original cut has been found, but now have some hope that Warners hasn't abandoned the idea of putting together a very nice DVD release of what exists.

...now if they would just hurry up.

[Glenn Anders]

At the time the recent rumor about THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS print in Brazil surfaced, Robert Harris was drawn briefly into a discussion on the same board, in which he related his own efforts to restore the film, and discounted the rumor.

But this latest response from Harris suggests to me that there is something there. No, probably not the 131 minute version. But Warners has gone mum on the promised dual release of . . . AMBERSONS and JOURNEY INTO FEAR. There must be a reason. I think, cautiously, that they have found something of either . . . AMBERSONS or . . . FEAR, maybe both , which requires further work.

Otherwise, Harris would not have to be so circumspect.

He could just say, sorry, as far as I know, there's nothing to these rumors.

Glenn

[RayKelly]

Couple of thoughts, if Warners did indeed find the lost footage (next to the Ark of the Covenant and Jimmy Hoffa's body) it might make sense for them to keep it quiet until the DVD is ready to get the maximum sales benefit of the publicity.
Far more likely, I think is it that they are doing their own Roger Ryan-type reconstruction as a bonus feature and that is what Harris is being mum about

[C.P. Czarnecki]

Maybe they just found certain footage, say, Welles' own versions of the re-shot scenes or something like that. But I highly doubt that Warner is doing their own reconstruction. Doesn't seam likely.

[Glenn Anders]

Is that last line a pun, C.P?

If not, leave it alone. I like it.

Glenn

[nhu]

...But this latest response from Harris suggests to me that there is something there. No, probably not the 131 minute version. But Warners has gone mum on the promised dual release of . . . AMBERSONS and JOURNEY INTO FEAR. There must be a reason. I think, cautiously, that they have found something of either . . . AMBERSONS or . . . FEAR, maybe both , which requires further work... Glenn

We are all speculating here on the possibility/impossibility of a complete 131 minute Ambersons showing up. Do you think there is even a slightest possibility that just the lost footage could have been found somewhere? Maybe not near Hoffa's body as Ray Kelly humorously put it, but somwhere.

[Dan]

We are all speculating here on the possibility/impossibility of a complete 131 minute Ambersons showing up. Do you think there is even a slightest possibility that just the lost footage could have been found somewhere? Maybe not near Hoffa's body as Ray Kelly humorously put it, but somwhere.

Like maybe in Beatrice Welles' garage.

[Glenn Anders]

No 131 minute cigar, nhu, but I'll stick with my analysis that the change of tone between Harris's first dismissal of the rumor, and now his remark that, in effect, he has nothing to say for attribution, suggests that something has happened in the last few months. I think bord may be pretty close to the truth.

I notice that these remarks of ours have been noted on the IMDb Page for . . .AMBERSONS, but with an inaccurate link provided!

As usual, we'll have to wait to see.

Glenn

[mido505]

Nhu asks

We are all speculating here on the possibility/impossibility of a complete 131 minute Ambersons showing up. Do you think there is even a slightest possibility that just the lost footage could have been found somewhere? Maybe not near Hoffa's body as Ray Kelly humorously put it, but somwhere.

I have speculated that the 131 minute workprint of Ambersons sent to Welles in Brazil was not left there or destroyed, but was bundled in with the It's All True footage shipped back to the U.S. and then forgotten. The theory is outlined in this thread: http://wellesnet.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

For my theory to work, it would have to take into account Roger Ryan's report that the 131 minute work print of Ambersons was 16mm. As the 16mm film cans would stand out like a sore thumb amongst the 35mm It's All True footage, my theory rests on the notion that at least some of It's All True was shot in 16mm, making it easier for the Ambersons footage to have been confused with material for It's All True. At the time I could not prove that any of It's All True had been shot in 16mm, so my theory foundered, and I dropped it.

Subsequently, I have discovered anecdotal evidence, in the second volume of Simon Callow's Welles biography, Hello Americans, that some of It's All True was shot in 16mm. See pages 65 and 96. The relevant quotation from page 96 reads: "Reg Armour of the finance department reported to Phil Reismann that the production department had informed him that out of 67,000 feet of 35mm film, plus fifty-nine rolls of 16mm, only two reels could be used 'for entertainment purposes in this country.'"

We also know from Catherine Benamou that, at least until recently, not all of the extant It's All True material has been examined. Much of it has been just sitting there, deteriorating, for want of preservation funds. So if my theory is correct (a slim chance, for sure, but one that is logically viable), the 131 minute work print of Ambersons could have been discovered recently during routine preservation work on It's All True.

The Wellesnet thread which I link to in the above paragraph also contains an interesting discussion about a report by director William Friedkin regarding Ambersons. The report is sketchy, conflicted, and anecdotal, to say the least, but nonetheless very interesting.

Given the amount of hitherto "lost" Welles material that has turned up over the years, I would not be so quick to discount the possibility of a longer Ambersons turning up. Last year, if you had asked any "experts" if a complete Metropolis would ever be found, you probably would have been laughed out of the room.

[RayKelly]

As usual, we'll have to wait to see.
Glenn

A July 7 poster on the Criterion forum stated he was told by someone at Turner/Time Warner that the found long version tale is not true. Further. the Warner delay in releasing Ambersons and Fear is related to decisions over what additional materials to include.
Sadly, like so much else we find on this subject there is never attribution.