Citizen Kane as cultural touchstone

[Roger Ryan]

It's an overused phrase for sure (and, ultimately, meaningless - sort of like "Rosebud"!), but calling something "the CITIZEN KANE of..." is simply a way to convey that the thing stands head-and-shoulders above the competition in terms of ambition and execution. I see it as a compliment to Welles' achievement; however, I don't see much point in applying it to anything other than filmmaking. Citing RAGING BULL as "the CITIZEN KANE of boxing movies" seems appropriate since the character arc and biographical aspects between the two films are similar and both films broke new ground from a cinematic standpoint. But is THE GODFATHER "the CITIZEN KANE of gangster films" or is THE GODFATHER the cultural touchstone itself (THE SOPRANOS is "THE GODFATHER of HBO drama series", etc.)?

I don't think I've ever used the phrase seriously myself and the more ridiculous the comparison, the funnier it seems ("the CITIZEN KANE of girls-fighting-in-their-underpants commercials" made me laugh out loud). Which film did Roger Ebert refer to as "the CITIZEN KANE of silents..."? That seems like the most absurd take on the phrase. Surely, CITIZEN KANE would be the sound era's version of the silent film he references, not the other way around.

Oh well, I love the link found at the bottom of the "magnetcat.com" site that touts a new IMAX 3-D version of KANE coming soon; the mock-up 3-D stills actually work (in a tacky Photoshop kind of way) when you pop on the old red/blue glasses!

[ZenKaneCity]

Yeah, this is an interesting phenomenon, and the other trite touchstone I immediately thought of was, "It's the SGT. PEPPER of...". Both KANE and PEPPER were relatively early works (that is to say, they seemed to sum up an early era) of an artform whose legitimacy was widely questioned early on. As noted (in respect to KANE) in the video game article you linked to, they're often cited as the works that prove the artistic validity of film and rock music. It's ironic then, that Kane and Pepper are also seen as being rather flashy, ambitious, all-stops-out exploitations of their respective mediums, respected more for style than content in some quarters. This gives rise to statements like, "I know it's not as flashy, but AMBERSONS (or REVOLVER) is really the more mature work," or, "VERTIGO (or PET SOUNDS) is more morbidly obsessive." (Just kidding on that last one, but I couldn't resist... )

Of course, a lot of the examples cited are self-aware jokes from younger people (and others!) who are sick of having these perennial poll-winners shoved down their throats. That may be the backlash revenge equivalent for popular culture icons to putting an image of the Mona Lisa on a t-shirt. (Somehow, for me anyway, an image from KANE or the PEPPER album cover on a piece of merchandise doesn't seem equally trivializing. The overused expressions we're discussing, on the other hand, do feel like they steal a little thunder.)

Although I think this type of expression usually tends to be limited to works of pop culture, I do recall having run into "It's the ULYSSES of..." a couple of times.

[Alan Brody]

It's probably worth noting that Orson Welles himself was, and remains, something of a cultural touchstone; for example, on the Oscars a few years ago, when Robin Williams introduced Chuck Jones as the "Orson Welles of animation". It seems to me a good way to arouse curiosity among a new generation towards the great artists and cultural milestones of the past.

[nextren]

I wonder if Orson Welles was "the Shakespeare of the screen"?

[Alan Brody]

I'm sure a lot of us here like that comparison, but I have my doubts that Welles would have approved of it:

From Filming Othello:
"...what we're going to talk about is OTHELLO. Shakespeare's play and the film I made of it. That sounds rather arrogant doesn't it, just naming the two in the same sentence. The truth is, of course that by any real standard of worth, comparison is not merely impossible, it's absurd. The play is something more than a masterpiece. It stands through the centuries as a great monument to western civilization. Take an arbitrary figure: Twelve. Name twelve plays which could be called great. OTHELLO must be one of those twelve. Of that twelve, at least nine (which is another arbitrary figure) are by Shakespeare. That leaves three on our list for all the other writers who ever lived. Is that putting it too strongly? Or is it too high? You can't go higher than that, and Shakespeare remains immortally number one. Among all dramatists the first. The greatest poet, in terms of sheer accomplishment, very possibly our greatest man. So where does that leave a mere moviemaker? Nowhere. Nowhere at all,..."

[ZenKaneCity]

Reading the linked-to blog post in the "Welles the Artist" thread in the "Film" forum (see link below), I got a kick out of seeing KANE referred to as "The Mount Olympus of Cinema." Kind of puts things in perspective, I guess...He also refers to AMBERSONS as "the cinematic equivalent of the Venus de Milo."

http://thenighteditor.blogspot.com/

[nextren]

In a review on MTV's website, Kurt Loder has this to say about a flick currently in theatres:

"In Judd Apatow's 'Funny People,' Adam Sandler, in a strong and resolutely unsentimental performance, plays this character as a guy who's worked his way to the top of his trade — from bottom-rung standup gigs to blockbuster movies — and now, at 40, doesn't know what to do with the news that his time is up. What's it all been for? He recently moved into a huge Malibu mansion, through which he wanders like Charles Foster Kane adrift in the empty splendor of Xanadu. Which is to say, alone."

So we can assume that the MTV Generation (at least, the almost-30 / thirtysomething portion of it) knows automatically who Charles Foster Kane is and what Xanadu is.

[David N]

I'll add my personal favorite. Somebody described the movie "Babe" as the Citizen Kane of talking pig pictures.

[tonyw]

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 80178.html

From TH INDEPENDENT UK, Sept. 3rd, with quotes from Joseph McBride and others.

[Glenn Anders]

THANK YOU, tonyw, for getting us away from the trivia.

This article in The Independent suggests the complexity of the man and the artist. Welles acted upon the World, and refused to allow its acts upon him thwart his forward artistic struggle. What remains is the result of that struggle.

I've just watched for the first time a decent copy of FALSTAFF (downloaded from VUSE). The film is not CITIZEN KANE, nor is it F FOR FAKE, but the film is the best of his Shakespearean efforts (also probably his best performance as an actor, when not simply playing himself in elaborate makeup). Still, CITIZEN KANE is his triumph, and only through the constant repetition of its highlights in our stereotypical age do we reduce that masterpiece to a cliche.

See the film whole, without distractions or allusions, and there can be no doubt of it.

Thank you again for your addition, tonyw.

Glenn

[tonyw]

Thank you, Glenn. It is always refreshing accessing this site since I've just left another one where a poster damned any old b/w films in favor of just concentrating on the present. Tonight I run two Anthony Mann noirs - T-MEN and RAW DEAL. I'm now just going to concentrate on sites and posts that I find positive.

Bring on the "crepe suzette"!

Tony

[RayKelly]

From MTV news:

Before he was on the receiving end of a half-dozen jokes at the Emmy Awards last night, Kanye West got the spoof treatment from none other than White Stripes/ Raconteurs/ Dead Weather leader Jack White on Friday night at the Toronto International Film Festival.

In town to celebrate the documentary "The White Stripes Under Great White Northern Lights," White barged in on director Emmett Malloy during a Q&A session and grabbed the microphone from him.

The Toronto Star reported that White emerged from the wings of the Elgin Theatre stage and blurted, "I'm gonna let you finish, I'm gonna let you finish, but Orson Welles had one of the greatest films of all time!"

Appreciating the riff on West's now-infamous bum-rush at last weekend's VMAs, the crowd reportedly cheered and whooped as White ran back offstage and Malloy had a laugh about the incident.

[Roger Ryan]

[quote="RayKelly"]From MTV news:
The Toronto Star reported that White emerged from the wings of the Elgin Theatre stage and blurted, "I'm gonna let you finish, I'm gonna let you finish, but Orson Welles had one of the greatest films of all time!"
quote]

Just what I'd expect from the fellow who wrote the song "The Union Forever" and named his recording company "Third Man Records".

[RayKelly]

Roger,
You will enjoy this fan-made clip of The Union Forever -- scenes from Citizen Kane and the White Stripes song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWldhOOkNDg

Lyrics below:




It can't be love
for there is no true love
It can't be love
for there is no true love

Sure I'm C.F.K. [Charles Foster Kane-Citizen Kane]
but you gotta love me
the cost no man can say
but you gotta love me

Well I'm sorry but I'm not
interested in gold mines, oil wells, shipping or real estate
what would I liked to have been?
everything you hate

cause It can't be love
for there is no true love
It can't be love
for there is no true love

There is a man
a certain man
and for the poor you may be sure
that he'll do all he can
who is this one?
who's favourite son?
just by his action has the traction
magnets on the run
who likes to smoke
enjoys a joke
and wouldn't get a bit
upset if he were really broke
with wealth and fame
he's still the same
I'll bet you five you're not alive
If you don't know his name

You said the union forever
You said the union forever
You cried the union forever
but that was untrue girl

cause It can't be love
for there is no true love
It can't be love
for there is no true love

[Glenn Anders]

Pointing up what Roger and others have observed, and what many will know who read this thread, the White Stripe who is Jack has long been obsessed with Orson Welles, his creative output, and his entourage. The White Stripes have worked into their songs references to Welles, Rita Hayworth, etc. Here is Jack White answering a question in a recent interview conducted by a "Screening Room" Staffer with Meg and Jack White:

[Staffer]: If you could pick alter egos from cinema history, who would they be?

JACK: Probably Orson Welles. I think he was really in touch with beauty and he knew how to get points across really well. I think that he was like a lot of guitar players who were drummers first and are better guitar players because of it. Because Welles started out in radio, I think that made him a better filmmaker. I heard him say one time, you should know the relationships of the people in a film with the sound turned off. Without any dialogue or any music, you should feel the difference between people or whatever it is. And it's really important, and coming from that standpoint, it just makes everything even better. . . .

http://www.nerve.com/screeningroom/film ... igarettes/

------------------

I would not be surprised to learn that Jack White has wandered around Wellesnet, at one time or another.

Glenn