Thompson's first visit with Susan?

[Colmena]

Why does Thompson visit Susan in the El Rancho first, before he reads Thatcher's memoir? What is the purpose of this scene?-- given that that she refuses to talk.
I have an answer to this puzzle, but I'll hold back in case anyone else would care to venture one.

(Laura Mulvey, in her small book on CK notes that this is a puzzle, and offers an answer... but I don't agree with it.)

[Roger Ryan]

This seems like pretty logical plotting to me. As Kane's second wife, Susan Alexander would be Thompson's best bet to find out what "Rosebud" means. If she was more congenial, and knew the answer, Thompson could end his search quickly. As it is, the phone call to Rawlston establishes that Thompson has already contacted the library and Bernstein as well, so he had an itinerary he was following. After Thompson feels he still hasn't gotten the information he was seeking after reading Thatcher's memoirs and talking to Bernstein and Leland, he goes back to Atlantic City to try talking to Susan again. Fortunately, for him and the viewer, she is willing to talk the second time.

By the way, there is an interesting conversation included in the new "My Lunches With Orson" book which has Welles stating that the first footage he shot for KANE was a song performance by Susan in the El Rancho nightclub. He goes into detail about how a "dangerous" chemical was sprayed into Comingore's throat to give her a raspier voice and even refers to the song she sang as "Come and Go" (I couldn't find a song from this era that matches that title exactly). Somewhat frustratingly, lunch partner Jaglom doesn't mention that this supposed scene is not in the final cut of the film and Welles appears to have forgotten that it was taken out. If Welles is being at all accurate about this being the first scene shot, I'm thinking it would probably have been intended as a brief interlude before Thompson sits down to talk with Susan a second time. As it is, the transition into the second scene between Thompson and Susan is fairly abrupt which could be due to this footage being excised.

[Colmena]

Thank you Roger, for noting that it is "logical plotting" for Thompson to debrief Susan first. I hadn't appreciated that.

I would add that what we learn from this scene is that she is so distraught by Kane's recent death that she is unwilling /unable to talk. We learn that she truly loved /cared for her late husband. This then alerts us to her importance, and their importance as a couple, which will be made clear later. Somewhere Welles says that CK is, after Kane himself, more about Susan than anyone else.

And we also learn that she didn't know anything about Rosebud, which is surprising since it's her snowglobe that provokes Kane to utter "Rosebud!" Perhaps he shared his sorry tale of losing that sled and being whisked off to NYC, and how her snowglobe reminded him of that last day in Colo, w/o telling her the name on the sled.

[Roger Ryan]

...Perhaps he shared his sorry tale of losing that sled and being whisked off to NYC, and how her snowglobe reminded him of that last day in Colo, w/o telling her the name on the sled.

My feeling is that Kane himself may not actually remember that "Rosebud" was the name on his sled! He associates the word with his childhood and the winter scene depicted in the snowglobe, but it could be that the word has bubbled up from his subconscious without a specific meaning, only as a mysterious phrase representing something lost and irretrievable.

[NoFake]

I like that, Roger. It’s of a piece with the preludial conversation in the newsroom (when they’re contemplating what “Rosebud” might mean), and actually gives the scene – and the sled – the layers they've lacked in most interpretations. That is, Rosebud is something more metaphysical than physical or even emotional. Now: where does this lead us?

[Colmena]

I now see that having Thompson proceed from the initial pow-wow to Susan presents us with this big hint that Susan is Kane's second Rosebud, since we have this direct skip from Rawlston's "Rosebud, dead or alive!" to the poster of "Susan Alexander Kane, appearing twice nightly." Complete with thunder and lightening!

[Le Chiffre]

Yes, it makes sense to tie Susan and Rosebud together, especially if there is any truth to the rumors about "Rosebud" being Hearst's nickname for Marion Davies's genitalia. As Leaming puts it, Hearst was probably furious that, not only was the word mentioned throughout the film, but that Kane died with Rosebud on his lips.

[rubbydub]

I haven't sat down with "Citizen Kane" for years so I could be wrong. I assume that Thompson went to work on the assignment right away after the meeting in the screening room. He could get to Atlantic City in less than a few hours and the night club would still be open when he got there that night. Everything else would have to wait till the morning. Maybe he could get Susan to spill about Rosebud and he could wrap it up that night without having to go the Thatcher Library or visit Bernstein or Leland. Than he could just go home or stay overnight on the Enquirer's dime and go to sleep.

[Colmena]

Re Rosebud as genitalia, I can see Welles choosing this since he thought that antagonizing Hearst would be good for publicity, but it also strikes me as beside the point. Kane's affair with Susan is not about sex, it's about her singing for him, etc. When Gettys sets up that confrontation in Susan's apartment, you hear her protesting 2 or 3 times that "it's not what you think...." meaning, I assume, that this relationship is not about what Emily might suppose: sex. In the screenplay she adds that it's about her singing.

By contrast, the opening scene in the decline of his first marriage, at the breakfast table, shows the sexual pleasure that Kane and Emily enjoy, at first. He's going to cancel work this morning, so that they can go back to bed and take care of what they were too exhausted to get to the night before, after those six parties.