Citizen Kane - a good stoner flick?

[Wellesnet]

Jonathon Rosenbaum cites Citizen Kane among many other classic films in his 1990's article on Stoner Cinema, "What Dope Does to Movies", originally published in High Times Magazine, and recently reposted to his website:
http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/2015/06/16120/

In more ways than one, The Movie as Trip profoundly altered the social trappings and atmosphere of filmgoing as well as the more purely formal and aesthetic aspects of the experience. in contrast to the quintessential communal experiences of movies like Gone With the Wind, The Wizard of Oz, and Casablanca — movies for and about communities — the no less emblematic 2001 of the Sixties and Apocalypse Now of the Seventies made each spectator the hero of a new kind of drama, which was staged inside someone’s head. In some ways this environmental experience could be attributed to tapping the atmospheric possibilities of Dolby sound, but in other respects it might be regarded as a throwback to the German Expressionist movie tradition that characterized such silent classics as The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Metropolis, Faust, and Sunrise, and which subsequently became more Americanized and mainstreamed in certain Disney cartoon features like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and Pinocchio – not to mention Orson Welles’s live-action Citizen Kane.

[duke_mccloud]

meh, I think any of welles movies could appeal to stoners as far as his use of German Expressionism. Citizen Kane is visually pleasing but the storyline would probably be lost to most dashing to the fridge instead or engaging in the plot. I feel like The Trial would be the best choice for all around OW stoner flick but thats just my opinion.

[mido505]

Perhaps Mr. Rosenbaum should write an article about "What Dope Does To Critics".

[tonyw]

THE TRIAL would be equivalent to "cold turkey." As Ebert says in his audio-commentary KANE demands "an active viewer." Maybe the Oja/Bob Random scenes in the seen footage of THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND could substitute especially if Welles was satirizing ZABRISKIE POINT with it's quasi-psychedelic scenes in the desert? At least, that is one editing suggestion should the contract issues be sorted out.

[Le Chiffre]

That's an interesting point, Tony. You have to wonder if Jake Hannaford wasn't making a stoner flick, or at least trying to. And what about Welles, for that matter? Those were the times.

Was Orson Welles "Experienced?" (2005 thread from ilxor):
https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelecte ... UOzk0jNbLg

[tonyw]

Again, we have to wait until it is edited and ready for viewing - if ever? Maybe, Hannaford is trying to regain favor by making a stoner movie that would sell at the time? Many were around including a now forgotten film GOLD (no relation to the later Roger Moore film) that looked like the cast and crew were all high on drugs. Ronan 0'Reilly of Radio Caroline film bought it and tried to promote a new career as distributor. I argued with him on the phone in vain after a painful screening in Manchester at the time suggesting he should turn his attention to New German Cinema, especially Fassbinder which the Notting Hiill Gate Cinema introduced with FEAR EASTS THE SOUL. However, I think Orson's view would be much more satirical and complex if ever we could recover it and see in the way he intended.

[Le Chiffre]

ALI: FEAR EATS THE SOUL is a wonderful human drama by Fassbinder, but doesn't strike me as a stoner flick at all, certainly not in the way that another icon of New German Cinema - Herzog's AGUIRE THE WRATH OF GOD - does, with it's hypnotic, 2001-type rhythms, overripe visuals, and operatic performance by Kinski. Of course, like 2001, that film is great whether one is stoned or not.

I agree with Duke McCloud that most of Welles's theatrical features - particularly the Hollywood films, like KANE - have a somewhat hallucinatory quality that seems rooted not only in German expressionism, but also the magic and illusions that comes from optical printing and the influence of Melies. However, with TOSOTW he seemed to be striking out in a different direction where the hypnotism comes from overheated editing techniques, frenetic almost to the point of straying into Stan Brakhage territory. How this would work, or whether it would work at all is something we'll never know, since any attempt to complete the film can never be exactly what Welles would have envisioned. We do have another, complete example of this style in F FOR FAKE, but that can hardly be considered as a stoner flick either.

[tonyw]

I think the "stoner flick" was a minor element in the overall conception. Certainly, the unedited footage of Oja and Bob shown to the studio executive contained elements that Welles wanted to satirize but I have a feeling that the prposed overall style was much more multi-faceted and challenging. However, as you say, we will never know since whoever does the reconstruction will not approach Welles's level nor maybe desire to keep on experimenting.

[Le Chiffre]

Yes, I’m sure Welles had much more on his mind then appealing to dope heads, but there is that theme of two generations meeting head on that runs throughout the story. Hannaford’s drug of choice is booze, but if I remember correctly, the script indicates that dope is being smoked at his party by the younger set, and I've heard at least one account indicating that there was pot on the set of Welles’s film (not that Welles himself was necessarily aware of it).

Welles summarized his attitude toward pot to Bogdanovich when he said smoking marijuana was an innocent thing in and of itself, and all that it did was give you incredibly bad breath; a statement that suggests Welles tried smoking it at some point (perhaps the Harlem MACBETH, for example), but didn’t get high from it. However, he does seem to poke fun of America’s anti-drug paranoia in TOUCH OF EVIL when the Nightman becomes terrified after finding a half-smoked joint.

I think the term “stoner flick” is pretty hard to define exactly. 2001 was marketed as “The Ultimate Trip” back in 1968 (an obvious drug reference), but although there are some trippy passages in it, there’s a lot more to it than that as well. After 2001’s success, Disney’s FANTASIA was dusted off and re-released to theatres using pretty psychedelic advertising. I suppose many great movies (besides Welles's movies) have unusual and/or heady visual styles, that might make them good candidates for “pharmaceutical embellishment”, although they’re not necessarily stoner flicks, per se.