Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Discuss Welles's two RKO masterpieces.
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Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby Wellesnet » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:11 am

‘Furious’ Vin Diesel does not revere ‘Citizen Kane’:
http://www.wellesnet.com/furious-vin-di ... izen-kane/
"Do you think Citizen Kane is the best movie ever?," Diesel incredulously asked Alexander. "In 2017, you think Citizen Kane is the best [expletive] movie ever? Bull–! Bull–!  Bull–!  You don't believe that....  You DO believe that?"
Diesel asked Alexander whether he thought Citizen Kane was better than The Godfather and was stunned to learn the interviewer preferred Welles' 1941  movie to Francis Ford Coppola's mob masterpiece.
"You're so in film school ... That's so nostalgic," Diesel told Alexander.

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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby tonyw » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:39 am

Typical New Hollywood ignorance revealing why that industry produces nothing of any long lasting value today. :D

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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby atcolomb » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:01 pm

I'm surprised he did not say Smokey & The Bandit was the best made film of all time. I agree with tonyw and the reason I go to the theater only a few times a year.

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Le Chiffre
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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby Le Chiffre » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:01 am

Yes, I agree with Tony too. Where's the CITIZEN KANE or THE GODFATHER of the last 25 years? A few excellent movies every year, but any undisputed masterpieces? The bottom line and the opening weekend are everything nowadays.

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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby Wich2 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:08 am

With the "given" that pronouncing that ANY one film is "The Greatest Film Ever Made" is somewhat silly, I'll at least give Vin credit for recognizing that GODFATHER is a very good movie!

Beyond that, Presentism is always a bad thing - and it's ever-present in every era. (Even back in those eras that we later brand as "Classic" or "Golden.")

-Craig

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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby Le Chiffre » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:34 am

That's true, Craig. I couldn't drag my 14-year-old nephew to the Star Wars sequel last year, because he thought the previous films were "too old". It's interesting that Orson Welles and Kane's international reputations were not built in America, but in Europe, by publications like Cahiers and Sight and Sound. I've heard it said more than once that Europe is more devoted to the idea of cultural legacy while America is much more of an "out with the old, in with the new" kind of place. I guess capitalism in general depends on a certain amount of disposability.

It'll be interesting to see if the AFI does a third "greatest American movies poll next year, as they did in 1998 and 2008. They seem to be on a ten-year cycle, like Sight and Sound. Kane finished first in both of the first two polls.

Atcolomb,
Ironically Welles reportedly said he was an admirer of SMOKEY AND THE BANDIT, although he didn't say why. Maybe because he liked both Reynolds and Gleason. Anyway, your point is still valid. It definitely helped pave the way for the likes of Vin Diesel.

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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby Wich2 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:47 pm

Le Chiffre wrote:Ironically Welles reportedly said he was an admirer of SMOKEY AND THE BANDIT, although he didn't say why.


Well Chief, though empty Pop, as a Chase Film the piece is well constructed - and I think Welles appreciated that.

-Craig

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Terry
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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby Terry » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:20 pm

Mike, you've reminded me of this old Erich von Stroheim quote:

"In France, if you write one good book, compose one beautiful song, paint one great picture, direct one outstanding film and nothing else, you are still recognized as an artist and honored accordingly. In Hollywood, you're only as good as your last picture. If you didn't have one in production within the last three months, you're forgotten, no matter what you have achieved before."

Which nicely leads into these reputed Welles quotes:

“I’m not bitter about Hollywood’s treatment of me, but over its treatment of D.W. Griffith, Josef von Sternberg, Erich von Stroheim, Buster Keaton and a hundred others.”

And regarding presentism:

"I passionately hate the idea of being with it; I think an artist has always to be out of step with his time."

"PB: I guess that's called being ahead of your time.
OW: It's called being in trouble."

So, it's the same old, same old for Tinseltown then.
Sto Pro Veritate

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Le Chiffre
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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby Le Chiffre » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:51 am

That Stroheim quote is great. That seems to be the way the Hollywood game goes: make money for the studios with their kind of movies and they'll let you do something risky and individualistic once in awhile. Ford and Hitchcock understood this, and so had long, successful careers. So did Stanley Kubrick, who got to do BARRY LYNDON after 2001 and CLOCKWORK ORANGE were hits, then when Lyndon failed, did THE SHINING to get back in the good graces of Warner Brothers. Spielberg got funding to do something risky like SCHINDLER'S LIST because he had already made a ton of money for the studios with more commercial fare. Welles played along with this game too when he made THE STRANGER, but as Paul Schrader put it in HOLLYWOOD MAVERICKS: "There was a certain contrariness to (Welles) that made it very difficult for him to work within the Hollywood system." Of course, having several films cut to ribbons by the studios undoubtedly added to that difficulty. In Europe he had the opposite problem: artistic freedom, but inferior resources and convoluted financing.

It's not surprising that those that make it big playing by the system's rules, like Vin Diesel, are contemptuous of those, like Welles, who tried to challenge that system. As Welles himself said, "An individual is an outright nuisance in a factory."

And regarding presentism:
"I passionately hate the idea of being with it; I think an artist has always to be out of step with his time."

That seems to be the basic idea behind THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND: a dark satire about what happens when an old director tries to be "with it" and in step with his time.

BTW, I can't remember if I have posted this before, but it might be apropos in this thread too. It's another trashing of CITIZEN KANE by Cinema Sins on YouTube. Pretty nitpicky for the most part, but some amusing bits here and there.
Everything Wrong With Citizen Kane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqHRwP7LFMg

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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby RayKelly » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:03 pm

Le Chiffre wrote:I couldn't drag my 14-year-old nephew to the Star Wars sequel last year, because he thought the previous films were "too old".

Man, I am feeling very old right now.

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Terry
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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby Terry » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:16 pm

RayKelly wrote:Man, I am feeling very old right now.


We are, and long may we continue so.
Sto Pro Veritate

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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby tonyw » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:29 pm

Did not Orson tells young Peter B in THIS IS ORSON WELLES that the Renaissance only lasted a relatively short period and the same would be true of Hollywood? Kubrick liked the Steve Martin film THE JERK probably because of its absurd plot premise rather than any merits it had as a film.

For "the old timers" on this site, maybe it is time to search youtube for Maurice Chevalier's number from GIGI - "I'm so glad that I'm not young anymore."

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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby NoFake » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:40 am


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Le Chiffre
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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby Le Chiffre » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:48 pm

Thanks NoFake. That of course, calls for a rebuttal from Orson:

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Re: Kane gets trashed by Vin Diesel

Postby NoFake » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:35 am

Da nada, Le Chiffre. And – er – touché.


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