Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

[JMcBride]

A good set overall, and it's welcome to have a Blu-ray
of AMBERSONS, but Simon Callow's interview is riddled
with gross factual errors and repeats some of the damaging
myths about Welles in that period.

[jbrooks]

so it would not surprise me if in some Cinema library ( there are many in the country) or production house in a corner or closet somewhere the cans of Ambersons are there collecting dust.

Sadly, they almost certainly would have turned to dust (or vinegar) by now.

[leamanc]

I am absolutely convinced that somewhere in Brazil is the Magnificant Amberson rough cut

I think a lot of us here hold out hope that print is somewhere in Brazil. I’m not going to say it’s impossible, because look what happened with Orson’s own TOO MUCH JOHNSON, or Fritz Lang’s METROPOLIS. Anything is possible.

But in the case of METROPOLIS, that print wasn’t in hiding. Anyone who cared to look in Argentina knew that print was in that museum; it’s just that nobody bothered to check if it was the original cut. If it hadn’t been for projectionists saying “this film sure does run longer than it should,” who knows how long it would have been until someone noticed what they had.

The AMBERSONS print, on the other hand, was not meant for public projection. In all likelihood, it was indeed shipped back to the US, to RKO, where it was destroyed.

I still hold out hope until documentation of that shipment surfaces, but it’s not very likely the print is still there.

[atcolomb]

Blu-ray.com has a interesting review of the blu-ray release. Just received my copy last night and did a a/b comparison with the dvd release of a few years ago and a big improvement in image & sound.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Magn ... 56/#Review

[Roger Ryan]

...The AMBERSONS print, on the other hand, was not meant for public projection. In all likelihood, it was indeed shipped back to the US, to RKO, where it was destroyed.

I still hold out hope until documentation of that shipment surfaces, but it’s not very likely the print is still there.

The documentation exists requesting that the Brazilian office of RKO "junk" all of the 35mm reels shipped to Welles: 24 reels of Ambersons (14 reels constituting the 131 min. initial fine edit; 10 reels of alternate editing choices), plus 10 reels of Journey Into Fear (possibly the entirety of the 90 min. preview cut)...

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/mqrimage/x ... view=entry

...So the request was for the footage to be destroyed in Brazil circa December, 1944. The penciled note on the memo reports this is a "dead issue" by late June, 1946, which I think may be referencing the It's All True footage that RKO initially requested be preserved "until further notice" more than the other reels (I believe Welles' on-going dealings with RKO to try and purchase the rights to the It's All True footage finally came to an end in '46). The only hope would be if the Brazilian office did not actually following through on the request, or the "junking" was someone simply removing the reels from the office and taking them home.

[Roger Ryan]

Blu-ray.com has a interesting review of the blu-ray release. Just received my copy last night and did a a/b comparison with the dvd release of a few years ago and a big improvement in image & sound.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Magn ... 56/#Review

Per usual, Blu-ray.com does a decent job evaluating the transfer, sound, and extras, but the assessment of the film itself and its history is nearly incomprehensible. Once again, we're treated to this kind of nonsense:

After Welles landed in Brazil, immersed himself into the good life and then refused to go back home until he was ready to do so, he effectively surrendered The Magnificent Ambersons to RKO.

Seriously, why is it so hard to accept that Welles remained in South America because he was in the middle of a film shoot funded by RKO? The irresponsible thing to do would have been for him to abandon his crew and performers to return to California.

[nickleschichoney]

Seriously, why is it so hard to accept that Welles remained in South America because he was in the middle of a film shoot funded by RKO? The irresponsible thing to do would have been for him to abandon his crew and performers to return to California.

Because that nonsense sticks in people's minds more. I even had to correct a film historian friend of mine who said AMBERSONS was recut while Welles was "just partying it up in South America".

[CineCraft]

The other, crucial factor in Metropolis' survival is that as the 35mm nitrate original was seen to begin to decay, someone went to the trouble of duping it to 16mm safety stock. Granted, it wasn't a very good job and the results, well, you can see in the definitive restoration, but someone did something. If they hadn't we wouldn't have those recovered scenes today, because that nitrate wouldn't have held up. Brazil is perhaps the worst place for nitrate - hot, humid, and overall a very poor archival infrastructure. Even if the film hadn't been junked, I'm convinced it would've long since decayed to dust and been junked.

The mystery I cannot work out is, why didn't Welles save the workprint? He could've at least walked away from RKO with the chance to save what he did, to donate it to a museum like MOMA (which is what Schaefer had vainly tried to convince RKO to do for the original cut). I doubt RKO would've put up much of a fuss, if it meant being rid of him. I just cannot understand why he left that trove of material behind. Was he just so completely out of the loop in terms of the decay of his position with RKO, that he thought he could still go back and regain control of his film?

[nickleschichoney]

Don't know if this has been linked here before, but it's worth looking at: https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/mqrimage/x ... 1=mqrimage

[Roger Ryan]

...The mystery I cannot work out is, why didn't Welles save the workprint?...

I don't think this is as mysterious as it seems. Technically, thirty-four reels of 35mm film were shipped by RKO to its own office at Cinédia Studios in Brazil. This was done for Welles to view the material, of course, but he did not own the material, RKO did. As RKO property, it was archived at Cinédia until the New York office of RKO ordered it to be destroyed in December, 1944. Even with The Other Side of the Wind, Welles was prevented from accessing the negative and that was a partially self-financed film (in a desperate move, Welles surreptitiously absconded with workprint material so he could continue editing, something he never would have been able to pull with a major studio project). Again, it's not like the Ambersons reels were sent to his hotel room in Rio; they were shipped to an RKO office where they could be viewed in a screening room upon request - Welles had no right to remove the reels from the office at Cinédia. Even if Welles was willing to steal RKO's property to preserve the long cut of the film, how was he supposed to pack 14 reels of 35mm film in his luggage?

Once Welles returned to California in August, 1942, one could argue he should have been more forceful with RKO executives about preserving a longer version, but he was in no position to insist on this and was probably unaware that RKO intended to destroy the outtake negatives along with all of the preview prints. If Schaefer was unable to convince RKO to save the long cut, I doubt Welles would have had any more pull.

[CineCraft]

Thanks Roger, that clears it up for me. I was under the impression that he had physical possession of the reels. My mistake.

[edmoney]

A good set overall, and it's welcome to have a Blu-ray
of AMBERSONS, but Simon Callow's interview is riddled
with gross factual errors and repeats some of the damaging
myths about Welles in that period.

Apologies for going off tangent from your posted comment, but I wanted to ask you a question while we are on the topic of the print of the original cut that was sent to Brazil. I don't remember when exactly (2015 or 2016?), but I attended a showing of Ambersons at the Film Forum in NYC where you were present to introduce the film and then stayed afterwards to share your thoughts on the film and participated in a Q&A. You had mentioned a project that you were planning to undertake to go to Brazil and investigate the whereabouts of that lost print. If I may ask, did anything ever come of that?

[Le Chiffre]

This Bluray is about the best I've ever seen the film look, although it is a bit light; I chose to darken it somewhat with the controls - a personal preference, I suppose. I noticed details I had never noticed before, such as the background trees swaying in the wind for the shot where Welles's narrator says, "In those days, they had time for everything..." The Bluray quality also brings out the beauty and depth of the set design in a way I've never seen before. The Amberson Mansion really was Welles's ultimate Thorne Room.

A good set overall, and it's welcome to have a Blu-ray of AMBERSONS, but Simon Callow's interview is riddled with gross factual errors and repeats some of the damaging myths about Welles in that period.

Callow's presentation does sound a bit underprepared and improvised off the top of his head, and he makes several errors. For example, December 7th 1941, the day Pearl Harbor was bombed, was not the last day of filming, as he says. There was at least another month's worth of scenes to be shot. I disagree with his opinion that Delores Costello was too old for the role. She was 38 at the time filming started, playing a character who is implied to be about 40. He also says there is no evidence that Welles did any work on Ambersons while in Brazil. Welles must have done something, though, since he came up with his own full and detailed plan to shorten the film after being informed about the disastrous previews. Callow also says that Welles insisted on many occasions that filming on IT'S ALL TRUE was complete, but that the reality was that he had no unifying plan whatsoever to integrate the ton of footage shot. This is also not really the case. Welles had a beautiful and compelling plan for the completion of the film, which is part of the Welles archive at Lilly, but apparently that plan was rejected by RKO. Callow actually does come up with some nice insights here and there, such as when he says the Ambersons film captures the intimacy of radio.

The other extras are all very nice, but I'm somewhat disappointed in the lack of emphasis and info on all the missing scenes in the new set, since the original Criterion laserdisc from 1986 included the complete shooting script plus four missing scenes complete (including the boardinghouse ending), using the cutting continuity, plus Joe St. Amon's complete set of original storyboards for the film. That's why I'm glad they used Robert Carringer's original commentary from the LD, as he goes into that to some extent (the Rosenbaum/Naremore commentary is a very welcome addition as well). Also, Joseph McBride's presentation does a excellent job of illuminating the resentment felt towards Welles by Hollywood in general, and the animosity towards him among many higher-ups at RKO in particular, which establishes another possible motive for the butchery of the film.

I also liked Francois Thomas' presentation on the cinematographers used; one of the reasons why the film ran into trouble. I like his timetable approach, and would like to see a more detailed timeline sometime. The pairing of Welles's two surviving Tarkington adaptations for radio was also a good idea. The musical intro on SEVENTEEN sounds laughably garbled, but most of the rest of it sounds OK. Nice, informative piece on Hermann's score, and the selection of scenes from the 1925 silent version, PAMPERED YOUTH, looks much more beautiful here then on the LD and contain more scenes. Welles on Dick Cavett is great; I'd never seen that particular show before.

Overall, a very good set worth getting.

[Roger Ryan]

...Part of me wishes that Carringer would have recorded his commentary anew, since his laserdisc commentary was recorded prior to doing much of his significant research and his comments feature some notable errors and false assumptions. Some of these errors were corrected in his later writings, so it would be nice to hear his ideas and thoughts on the film circa 2018.

Funny how memory works. Re-listening to Carringer's commentary on the new Blu-ray, I disagree with my earlier comment that there are notable errors in it. The only two outright mistakes Carringer makes is assuming the trolley tracks visible in the street were the actual dolly tracks for the long tracking shot of George and Lucy riding through town (as seen in the behind-the-scene photos, the traveling crane used for the shot had rubber tires to convey it - no dolly tracks were required), and that the wide shots seen in the bedroom scene between George and Isabel originated as Cortez/Welles footage (the change in lighting between the wide shots and the close-ups had nothing to do with the mixing of old and new footage - everything in the scene was from a Freddie Fleck-directed re-shoot done on April 20th, 1942). Overall, the vintage commentary does do a good job of emphasizing where footage was deleted and how certain sequences were re-ordered.

I'm a big fan of Christopher Husted's "symmetry" theory (in regards to Herrmann's original score) and feel that this supplement goes a long way in illustrating the structure of the initial 131 min. edit. Despite the lack of a supplement focused exclusively on the deleted footage, the frame enlargements and production stills spread throughout the bonus features cover virtually all of the material that was cut, so I feel the viewer has a pretty good sense of what that initial long cut was like once they've watched everything, listened to the commentaries, and read the numerous essays (all of which are quite good).

Speaking of the high-quality of the transfer, I can now finally see that the building in the background of the shot of George striking the man with his switch as he rides his buggy through town has a sign identifying it as the "Amberson Hotel"!

[Le Chiffre]

Wow, good eye, Roger. Never noticed that before either, and I don't know if I ever would have caught that; I wonder if Welles was thinking of his father's hotel in Grand Detour.

Another thing I did notice for the first time was that you can see the breath of Lucy and Eugene as they ride home from the Amberson ball. This must have been filmed in the same icehouse as the sleighride scene. I'm thinking that the missing follow up scene where the two put their car away in the horse stable might have been filmed in the icehouse too. I'm sure Welles would have wanted their breath to be seen there too.

In the new Rosenbaum/Naremore commentary, Rosenbaum suggests that the later Eugene/Lucy scene in the garden doesn't look like it was directed by Welles. I think he's wrong, but I can't say for sure. That's got to be Bernard Hermann's organ music though, since it is on the CD of the full original music score recorded in Australia.