Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Discuss Welles's two RKO masterpieces.
Roger Ryan
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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby Roger Ryan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:50 pm

Le Chiffre wrote:...In the new Rosenbaum/Naremore commentary, Rosenbaum suggests that the later Eugene/Lucy scene in the garden doesn't look like it was directed by Welles. I think he's wrong, but I can't say for sure. That's got to be Bernard Hermann's organ music though, since it is on the CD of the full original music score recorded in Australia.

The Eugene/Lucy "Garden Scene" is definitely Welles' footage - there is a production report noting the shooting of it during principal photography and no records indicating the scene was re-shot later. In one of his telegrams, Welles asked for some nature sounds such as birds tweeting to fill in some of the dead spots when neither Eugene nor Lucy are talking - this obviously was not done.

Another slight error in the Rosenbaum/Naremore commentary: Naremore suggests that Moorehead is not playing the role of "Fanny" when she is first seen as a member of the Greek Chorus during the opening section of the film. At this point, Wilbur has yet to marry into the Ambersons, so Fanny would logically still be among the townsfolk who marvel at the family (she is shown standing next to "Mrs. Johnson", appropriate since Johnson is identified as Fanny's close friend later in the film - theirs is a friendship that continued even after Fanny became a member of the Amberson clan). The commentators also revisit the Bernard Herrmann description of the original ending in which the composer remembers that the boarding house is revealed to be the converted Amberson mansion. There is no indication in the cutting continuity for the 131 min. version that this twist was part of the film. As established by the final scene in the mansion, Fanny and George already have a boarding house in mind they intend to move to. I suspect Herrmann is remembering the deleted narration (which Herrmann provided a music cue for) where Welles comments that the mansion will eventually be torn down and replaced with cheap housing. It's also quite possible that the exterior of the boarding house in the final scene somewhat resembled the Amberson mansion (there's some likelihood that the old house seen in 1944's Curse of the Cat People, co-directed by Robert Wise, had been used as Fanny's boarding house). These two things may have led Herrmann to erroneously claim that the mansion had been converted to the boarding house by the end of the film.

By the way, in addition to the "Amberson Hotel" sign, you can also make out the name "Amberson" on a building during the initial long shot when young George makes his first appearance riding his pony cart. This set dressing reinforces the idea that Major Amberson owns a number of buildings in town (further established in the deleted "Friends of the Ace" clubhouse scene). This attention to detail even extended to street signs: while the "Amberson Boulevard" street sign is visible as Eugene approaches the mansion with his flowers and candy, one of the Criterion supplements includes a behind-the-scenes photo of the George-and-Lucy-riding-through-town scene being shot where you can make out a street sign for "10th Street" - in Tarkington's novel, "Amberson Boulevard" was renamed "10th Street" after the dissolution of the family.

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Le Chiffre
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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby Le Chiffre » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:15 am

Naremore suggests that Moorehead is not playing the role of "Fanny" when she is first seen as a member of the Greek Chorus during the opening section of the film.

Yes, a small but unfortunate error on Naremore's part.

The commentators also revisit the Bernard Herrmann description of the original ending in which the composer remembers that the boarding house is revealed to be the converted Amberson mansion. There is no indication in the cutting continuity for the 131 min. version that this twist was part of the film.

I heard another version one time from Bob Dorian, the host of American Movie Classics (back in the days when they showed old movies uninturrupted), that not only was it the Ambersons Mansion converted, but that it was an insane asylum instead of a boardinghouse.

Mirrors appear frequently in the film, and I've always been intrigued by the possibility that the mirror which plays a significant role in the boardinghouse ending, might be the same mirror that George and Fanny stand next to after her breakdown. No evidence of that either, though.

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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby Wellesnet » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:29 am

Very enthusiastic review of the new package from Slant Magazine.com:
https://www.slantmagazine.com/dvd/revie ... -ambersons

"The Criterion Collection continues its heroic restoration of Orson Welles's lost and unappreciated masterpieces with this extraordinarily beautiful presentation of The Magnificent Ambersons."

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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby Le Chiffre » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:52 am

When people dream of the Magnificent Ambersons that might’ve been, they may be undervaluing the film that is, falling prey to the sort of false nostalgia that destroys the Ambersons. The brutal cutting of the narrative by RKO executives actually achieves a daring emotional effect: As the Ambersons fall apart, so does the film itself.

Ah yes, could be one of those divine accidents that Welles just loved. :?

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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby tonyw » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:14 pm

My review will appear in www.filmint.nu. sometime in the New Year.

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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby edmoney » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:26 pm

Having watched the film on the Blu-ray as well as having gotten through the extras that initially interest me the most (I still have to go through all the rest), I’ll chime in and echo some of the opinions expressed so far. The picture and sound quality are excellent and easily the best we have seen on home video so far for this film. While the 4K restoration on the whole is beautiful, there are a few moments where the age and condition of the elements still show through (e.g. blacks or shadow areas seem washed out in a few spots). Those moments jumped out at me because I didn’t remember seeing them on the previous DVD, which may indicate a different print was used (or the lower resolution and lackluster video of the old DVD masked those issues). Of course, the Criterion Blu-ray blows away the previous DVD in most other A/V regards.

The two supplements that were the most insightful for me and where I learned the most new things were “The Cinematographers” and “The Score.” It was interesting to know who shot what and understand the differences in style of the various cinematographers. “The Score” was quite a revelation for me in understanding the structure of the original film and the use of symmetry. It makes me long to see the 131-minute cut even more. The booklet was also a really good read, and I found the essays to be insightful as well. The Carringer commentary is very informative, although I was already familiar with most of the content. (And boy, does he speak ... extremely ... slowly.) I enjoyed the lively discussion between J. Rosenbaum and J. Naremore, but I can’t help feeling it might have been better if the two had separate commentaries where they could stretch out more with their thoughts and insights. I thought J. McBride did a very good job in explaining the back story behind what happened to the film, while I agree that S. Callow’s interview has some erroneous and misleading information in it despite his engaging way of talking about Welles and the film. All in all, I think it’s one of the best packages that Criterion has produced for a single film that I’ve seen.

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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby Wellesnet » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:50 am

Front Row reviews:
http://www.frontrowreviews.co.uk/dvdblu ... view/45710
The 4K has a lot to make it worth every penny. The best three extras are – The booklet. It has six essays and all are quality written pieces. The silent film adaptation segment is compelling for film historians. Two Mercury Theatre radio plays are superb!

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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby WellesFan » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:33 pm

Has Criterion -- who did an excellent job with the film -- stated why they didn't more thoroughly explore the deleted scenes? I do appreciate Professor McBride's contribution and his drawing of the last shot of the film, but I did expect a featurette on this topic. I just listened to a podcast where McBride spoke about Ambersons In it, McBride quoted a poem, which basically said that we shouldn't focus too much on what is lost. Instead, we should appreciate what remains. (McBride put it more eloquently than I just did.) I wonder if Criterion was taking a similar approach. But I'm curious. Has Criterion spoken publicly about their decision?

It did make me want to seek out Roger Ryan's lauded reconstruction.

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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby atcolomb » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:30 pm

Website Home Theater Forum has a review of the Criterion release. Strongly disagree with his review of the film itself but I guess we all have our options.

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/the-ma ... criterion/

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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby JMcBride » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:45 am

I (and others) urged Criterion to put Roger Ryan's superb "reconstruction"
of AMBERSONS on the edition, or an updated version of it Roger would do
including additional stills he has turned up, etc. but for whatever reason they decided against doing so. Too bad. Under
the circumstances it was even more than usually generous
of Roger to help me with the frame enlargements and offer
advice on the missing scenes for my video interview. I was conscious
of the need to cover the missing scenes, so I worked in as many
shots as I could as well as sufficient discussion, though one has
to consult books and Roger's reconstruction and the cutting continuity
of the full version (in Carringer's book on AMBERSONS) to get more
of the story. The poem I quote in the 1996 edition of my book ORSON WELLES (and as I gather on the podcast) is from Wordsworth, his Ode on
"Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood":

What though the radiance which was once so bright
Be now for ever taken from my sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower;
We will grieve not, rather find
Strength in what remains behind . . .

Film historian David Bordwell writes about the Criterion Blu-ray edition of AMBERSONS and other
recent developments in Welles scholarship on his erudite blog. http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2019/ ... -artistry/ David reproduces
part of one of the two telephone transcripts between RKO executives
about how they lied to Welles about the budget of IT'S ALL TRUE. They then
fired him for supposedly going over budget, when he was actually
under budget on IT'S ALL TRUE by $447,452. This has not been reported accurately
in some other books on Welles, which are ignorant of the facts (willfully or not) or get them garbled
or incomplete, but I discuss the situation fully in the interview and in my 2006 book WHAT
EVER HAPPENED TO ORSON WELLES?: A PORTRAIT OF AN INDEPENDENT CAREER. In both I quote the
April 27, 1942, transcript David partially reproduces -- which I consider the "smoking gun" document of Welles's Hollywood career -- and Criterion and I did a line-by-line reading and display of the key portions. I found it ironic that when I first printed
that discovery, some readers of Wellesnet were upset and refused to believe
it, preferring, I guess to believe the myth, as so often happens with Welles, even among his supposed admirers.
You still keep reading how profligate he was in Rio when in fact he was not.
I am glad Criterion let me set the record straight on the Blu-ray edition.

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atcolomb
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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby atcolomb » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:10 pm

Have WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO ORSON WELLES?: A PORTRAIT OF AN INDEPENDENT CAREER on my shelf and what a great fascinating book. I hope down the road Criterion will re-release Ambersons and put the reconstruction on it.

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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby RayKelly » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:54 am

Leonard Maltin has written a wonderful piece on Criterion's THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS and paid great deal of attention to the extras.

    When people say they are bingeing these days, it usually means watching one or more seasons of a TV series in marathon fashion. I’ve been doing the same thing with a single film: the Criterion Collection’s recent Blu-ray release of Orson Welles’s The Magnificent Ambersons.
    To be honest, I’ve never given this film much consideration. It’s well-known that the wunderkind’s follow-up to Citizen Kane was butchered by RKO after at least one disastrous preview. The studio didn’t think to save the excised material. so all we have is the 88-minute release print—shorn of more than 30 minutes—which offers only a taste of what the filmmaker had in mind.
    A generous selection of interviews, commentaries, and video treatises highlight key scenes and call attention to the details of every precious moment in the movie, as do the five eloquent essays in an accompanying booklet.
    As a result, I’ve fallen in love with the movie.

Read the entire artice at http://leonardmaltin.com/binge-ing-on-orson-welless-magnificent-ambersons/


(Thanks to Joseph McBride for pointing this out.)

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Re: Criterion release of 'The Magnificent Ambersons'

Postby tonyw » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:41 pm

http://filmint.nu/?p=26838. From Film International.


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