TMA and Mexican Spitfire

[Le Chiffre]

There's a Welles page run by a former Wellesnetter who claims the THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS never played on a double bill with the Lupe Valdez comedy MEXICAN SPITFIRE SEES A GHOST, as has been cited in numerous Welles books. I've never seen any evidence that the two films played together, but it has been claimed so many times, including on the new Ambersons Bluray from Criterion, that I never saw much reason to question it's validity. This question is not of huge importance, but it might be worth answering definitively, if that's even still possible.

If anyone has any opinions or info on this, feel free to post it here.

[Roger Ryan]

According to the Greenbriar Picture Shows blog site...

http://greenbriarpictureshows.blogspot. ... layed.html

..."Double feature placement was no more degrading than for any RKO release. Yes, The Magnificent Ambersons did play with Mexican Spitfire Sees A Ghost in Chicago and L.A., at least at the top of the bill, and goodness knows customers could use a laugh after time spent with the Ambersons."

This isn't definitive regarding Ambersons and Mexican Spitfire playing together on the same bill, but it wouldn't be that unusual for two RKO films released two weeks apart to be packaged together at some point. Note that the Greenbriar Picture Shows site contains vintage ads promoting Ambersons as second-billed under John Ford's The Battle of Midway and as part of a package with Kid Glove Killer. Whereas many Welles biographies use the double-billing or package placement of Ambersons to denote the disdain RKO held for Welles' second film, I'm thinking this distribution approach was really just business-as-usual. The difference being that Kane was treated with a level of prestige above what RKO would usually do for its "A" pictures; Ambersons was just treated as a standard "A" picture. Where the account may have become fanciful is the idea that Ambersons was ever second-billed under the Lupe Valdez comedy.

[RayKelly]

Here's a similar double bill out of NYC — Citizen Kane and Mexican Spitfire's Baby!

[Roger Ryan]

I feel that kind of settles the issue. If RKO's prestige picture of 1941 was (eventually) double-billed with a Mexican Spitfire comedy then a similar pairing with Ambersons was par for the course.

[Le Chiffre]

Thanks, Ray. I agree with Roger that that settles it. I'm almost tempted to track down the two Spitfire movies to see how they play with Kane and Ambersons. Almost.

Now we have to find the NYT ad for TOUCH OF EVIL when it opened in 1958 as part of a double bill with a Tab Hunter sex comedy.

[JMcBride]

I've seen Variety reports of AMBERSONS being paired with MEXICAN SPITFIRE SEES A GHOST. I checked
the weekly Variety BO reports for AMBERSONS and found that, contrary to conventional wisdom,
its inital two weeks of release were not disastrous (overall). In some places it did very
well, in some not well, in some OK. It was clear that RKO yanked the film before it had a real
chance to at least do fairly well overall. I report on this in my book WHAT EVER HAPPENED
TO ORSON WELLES?.

[RayKelly]

Now we have to find the NYT ad for TOUCH OF EVIL when it opened in 1958 as part of a double bill with a Tab Hunter sex comedy.

In my hometown paper during June 1958, it shows Touch of Evil played with Day of the Badman -- directed by Harry Keller; while Lafayette Escadrille starring Tab Hunter played alongside Paul Newman's The Left Handed Gun.

[JMcBride]

I've seen Variety reports of AMBERSONS being paired with MEXICAN SPITFIRE SEES A GHOST. I checked
the weekly Variety BO reports for AMBERSONS and found that, contrary to conventional wisdom,
its inital two weeks of release were not disastrous (overall). In some places (such as San Francisco) it did very
well, in some not well, in some OK. It was clear that RKO yanked the film before it had a real
chance to at least do fairly well overall. I report on this in my book WHAT EVER HAPPENED
TO ORSON WELLES?.

[Le Chiffre]

I wonder what RKO thought when Ambersons got nominated for Best Picture. Maybe they felt proud of having 'saved' it. Maybe they felt the embarrassment that they should have. I'm sure their handiwork on the film was common knowledge in Hollywood by that time.

Ray, I could have sworn I saw that NYT ad on microfiche years ago, where TOE was paired with the Tab Hunter. I wonder if it may have been released as part of a package where they mixed and matched double features according to city.

[RayKelly]

Ray, I could have sworn I saw that NYT ad on microfiche years ago, where TOE was paired with the Tab Hunter. I wonder if it may have been released as part of a package where they mixed and matched double features according to city.

You probably did. The lineup may have been different in my hometown — Springfield, Massachusetts.

[RayKelly]

Ray, I could have sworn I saw that NYT ad on microfiche years ago, where TOE was paired with the Tab Hunter. I wonder if it may have been released as part of a package where they mixed and matched double features according to city.

It looks like it was twinned with different Universal films. I did some checking and found The Dayton, Ohio Daily News, 6/25/1958, has an ad for Touch of Evil and Lafayette Escadrille starring Tab Hunter playing at the Belmont theater. Same combo at a Chester, Pennsylvania theater, according to Delaware County Daily Times, 6/15/1958.

[RayKelly]

There's a Welles page run by a former Wellesnetter who claims the THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS never played on a double bill with the Lupe Valdez comedy MEXICAN SPITFIRE SEES A GHOST, as has been cited in numerous Welles books.

Debate over, here are three listings I quickly grabbed off newspapers.com

[JMcBride]

Robert Wise, for his part, thought since AMBERSONS is regarded
as a classic, the editing didn't hurt so much. He conceded it was
better in its uncut version. Of course, he was wrong about
the editing. The uncut version may have been the greatest film
ever made. And the butchered release version was not an unqualified
boxoffice disaster. It did well in some opening engagements,
middling in others, not well in others, before RKO quickly
pulled it in what seems a further attempt to kill it. It is intriguing that it received a best-picture
nomination, as well as supporting actress (Agnes Moorehead),
cinematography (only Stanley Cortez was listed, even though others
shot parts of the picture), and art direction. Perhaps the Academy
members recognized its quality more than RKO did. No
Oscars, but Moorehead won the New York Film Critics
Circle Award for best actress.

[ashley wood]

Hi everyone,
I'm unable to post an attachment but Ambersons did open in LA with Mexican Spitfire Sees A Ghost.
Los Angeles Times 30th June 1942 carries an ad stating it opens Thursday at Pantages and Hill Street with Mexican Spitfire as the other feature.
The July 8th issue also has a highly complimentary review of the film by Edwin Schallert under the headline "Magnificent Ambersons Reveals Welles Art Anew". The review also questions the treatment of Orson by "the powers that be" and states there'd be nothing "more ghastly" than Orson leaving films and going back to the stage !

[RayKelly]

Hi everyone,
I'm unable to post an attachment but Ambersons did open in LA with Mexican Spitfire Sees A Ghost.
Los Angeles Times 30th June 1942 carries an ad stating it opens Thursday at Pantages and Hill Street with Mexican Spitfire as the other feature.
The July 8th issue also has a highly complimentary review of the film by Edwin Schallert under the headline "Magnificent Ambersons Reveals Welles Art Anew". The review also questions the treatment of Orson by "the powers that be" and states there'd be nothing "more ghastly" than Orson leaving films and going back to the stage !

Welcome Ashley!
Here is the LA Times listing, along with one from Canada and Pennsylvania.