Ambersons Again - Missing Footage

[Le Chiffre]

I don't recall anyone being uncivil to Rick Schmidlin on this message board. I do remember that Jaime Marzol wrote a satirical piece about Richard Wilson that Rick took offense to, afterwhich he suddenly announced he was leaving the board.

I don't doubt what you say, Glenn, and if Rick is interested in an Ambersons restoration, I'm glad. But the impression I got from his posts on other boards, is that he did not think an Ambersons restoration would work because subtitles would be too jarring in a sound-era film. I don't know what he would think of a voiceover version, but given the indifference my restoration has met with, it seems that approach is probably not acceptable to any potential producers, so that kind of eliminates both options. But if he does get a green light for an Ambersons restoration, I hope he has better luck with it then we did. I'm sure he would.

[Harvey Chartrand]

Therefore it is time to lay to rest any hope of seeing the restoration or completion in any way, shape or form of this mutilated classic. So let me write the epitaph for the headstone as we inter the remains:

Tomorrow Is Forever on the Other Side of a Quixotic Dream...
THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS
(1942-2005)
REST IN PIECES

[Oscar Christie]

I don't recall anyone being uncivil to Rick Schmidlin

think back . . .

[Johnny Dale]

No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

Schmidlin is a kind and gentle person who wanted to help preserve the legacy of Orson Welles.

[Wilson]

Rick took offense at a crude joke, whether or not any offense was intended by it. He was perhaps overly touchy about the whole thing, but the Internet has a way of confusing communication. And in any event, that particular incident really doesn't have any bearing on this discussion of Ambersons.



Edited By Wilson on Jan. 14 2005 at 18:17

[jaime marzol]

i don't think i was uncivil to schmidlin, all i did was respond to all the negativity he was expressing towards me. it seemed everything i said irritated him.

last i heard rick was at warner brothers, then he was not at warner brothers, then i heard that to earn a living he was taking naked pictures of women on motorcycles. sounds like a fun job.

clinton heylin and me both made numerous attempts to contact him since he seems to have a lot of research on touch of evil but he never responded. now i'm wondering if the research he collected while under contract belongs to him or to the employer. maybe he doesn't have that research and that is why he never bothered to respond. would be interesting to find out where that stuff is.

on ambersons:
there is a ton of materials at lilly, and dandy restorations could be done of ambersons, journey into fear, and the stranger, as well as a dvd of the film that was never made, heart of darkness.

i'm going back to lilly this march to get extra stuff on the stranger and to see what i can get on journey into fear, which is also public domain.

[Wilson]

Since Rick is not here to speak for himself, I would ask that all discussion on that topic end. And unless any poster actually knows what he's doing, let's refrain from making statements based on what someone has "heard". A quick Google search mentions that "Beginning January 20th through April 17, 2005, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences will present a new gallery exhibition "Erich Von Stroheim: A Life Discovered." Stills, letters, documents, video clips are on display, organized by Rick Schmidlin (who did the GREED reconstruction as well as the LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT reconstruction for Turner)."

I am fairly sure that Journey Into Fear is still owned by Warner, else we would have 1001 garbage PD versions of it.

And regarding restorations, I agree with Harvey in that we will likely never see the original Ambersons, regardless of what people do, professionally or otherwise to rebuild it. If the original footage isn't there, you can't restore or reconstruct it, or whatever you wish to call it. We can use scripts, stills, storyboards, whatever, but it is only an impression of the original, not a restoration. I'm not sure what the best word is for these attempts to put a butchered film back together, but restoration or reconstruction isn't it. Doesn't mean people should stop doing them, though.

[Oscar Christie]

This thread is for Ambersons. There is a scene in Ambersons where Georgie slams the door in Morgan's face.
A recent post in this thread contains a statement that is not valid. Perhaps the poster would amend that message.

[jaime marzol]

i'm happy to see ambersons in any shape except the one it's in. pics, story boards, etc. to even bring up that pics and screenplay pages will never equal what ambersons could have been is pretty obvious and doesn't merrit discussion. no restoration is possible because there is no footage, but a representation is possible, and works. so often with welles' work simply watching the film is not enough, it's only a part of the portrait. when some one dreams of making a representaion simply out of love for the work, ecourage him, don't shower him with vinegar.

i need to check again but i'm almost sure that JOURNEY INTO FEAR was listed at the public domain site.

on schmidlin:
that sounds incredible. years ago i found a book by herman weinberg that had all the photos used in greed restoration, and the photos were stricking in content, and i quality. i always thought a great film museum show would be a big room with 6 foot tall reproductions of all those stills, then a screening. imagine what a cool show like that could come from THE TRIAL.

[jaime marzol]

you are right about JOURNEY. in my normal bull headed way i was moving forward on researching JOURNEY, and there is a girl friday going with me to Lilly to transcribe the screenplay, because a brain fart caused confussion and juxtaposed JOURNEY with another film. I'll probably have it transcribed anyway, things like that are never a loss, i have to go regardless of the status of JOURNEY.

[Glenn Anders]

Jaime: On GREED, according to Scmidlin, in the AFI Library, he was handed a file box containing 625 newly donated stills from the film, at the end of some research he was doing on the music for TOE. It was the basis for his restoration of Von Stroheim's film.

It does happen.

Glenn

[jaime marzol]

glenn, yeap, the reconstruction is incredible.

i read that about the box of stills. and what an incredible thing to still have around. we are very lucky to have that restoration, and it's very sad that i still can't buy a dvd of it.

all those pics are in a book assembled by herman g. weinberg. i saw the book about 20 years ago, and it was old and beatup then. maybe weinberg assembled his book from that collection before it was donated, i don't know, but i always remembered those stunning stills. the junkman, that father with the big, black nose, those strange arms over the gold. very wild stuff. lilly has a few stunning stills. i would love to have 6-foot by 6-foot blow ups of some of those stills. high gloss b&w. what an art piece. as good as having a pollock!

[Roger Ryan]

Mteal, I feel kind of bad that your interest has waned in your "Ambersons" reconstruction (or whatever we should call it now); I would hate to think that seeing my version discouraged you in any way. At the same time, I know how difficult it is to mount such a project. Everything fell together for me the year I spent completing it (1993): the equipment, the Carringer and Bogdanovich books, the soundtrack CD, the friends who could help me and, most importantly, the time to do it (approx. 400 hours). I doubt I will ever have the time and resources to do anything like it again.
Let me add that I disagree that a "subtitle" or "title card" approach would be the way to go. For a silent film, that approach works wonderfully (i.e. "Greed"), but "Ambersons" is a sound film and Tarkington's prose edited and transposed by Welles deserves to be heard. While it would probably never be more than academic, the ultimate DVD release of "Ambersons" would include both the studio release version and a reconstructed version re-edting the existing scenes back to their original configuration and completing the missing footage with stills, music cues and actors reading from the cutting continuity script. Sure, it wouldn't be Welles' original cut, but it could go a long way to illustrate Welles' intentions and would give the existing footage an even greater power.

[Glenn Anders]

Jaime: Schmidlin told us that only 50 copies of GREED were made, and the Cable Company contract stated that there would be no commercial release.

We shall have to wait. "Time, you old gypsy man . . ."

Anyone who has seen Roger Ryan's reconstruction of THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS knows that a reconstruction can be hugely successful in giving the flavor of what Welles intended.

[BTW, Roger, may I sheepishly confess that I have not forgotten my promise to send you some Welles' Radio stuff. I got it all together for the site study of the Mercury Theater on the Air, started to make copies, but when the project stalled, so did I. One day, in the mail, Roger . . . ]

Meanwhile, Roger, why don't you (and the others working on similar projects) send Schmidlin a copy of what you have done on . . . AMBERSONS?

He's the man to follow up on your wonderful spadework. Perhaps, Peter Bogdanovich would be another interested party to contact.

Glenn

[Gordon]

R. Ryan wrote:

"Ambersons" is a sound film and Tarkington's prose edited and transposed by Welles deserves to be heard.

It may well take more than a decade before CGI technology has advanced to the point where a computer animated version of the completed Ambersons is feasible. But a soundtrack could be done today.