The Magnificent Ambersons - Finished Version?

[fanwelles]

I'd like to think Ambersons might have received popular and critical acclaim from future audiences if the original previews had been kinder to Welles, thus saving a nervous RKO from -
as things turned out alternatively - destroying the latter part of the film and creating their own 'happy' ending, replete with
the cherubic smiling face of Agnes Moorehead and the (altered) saccharine dialogue of Joseph Cotten, as they walk
slowly along a hospital corridor filled with a Hollywood Orchestra playing out the final scene in the time-honoured,
conventional manner. I wonder what Welles, himself, had to
say about it all?

[atcolomb]

There is a story that in his latter years he was at someones home when Ambersons was being played on tv and he at first did not want to watch it but then he started to with tears in his eyes saying how they screwed his movie....

[Roger Ryan]

That story was recounted by Peter Bogdanovich who was present that night. Welles watched the film at the request of others and reportedly offered occasional commentary on how the editing had been altered. Eventually, with tears in his eyes, he left the room. Bogdanovich asked Welles about his emotional reaction the next day. Welles replied that the studio's re-editing just made him angry, but he was saddened by the fact that all of it (persumably the good times making the film and his relationship with the cast) was over. "It's all gone now", he said.

[jaime marzol]

the quote i remember reading is that welles said he didn't get emotional because they cut it, he got emotional because it's the past and it's over. i understood that because i felt like that when i watched woodstock.

[Roger Ryan]

the quote i remember reading is that welles said he didn't get emotional because they cut it, he got emotional because it's the past and it's over. i understood that because i felt like that when i watched woodstock.

Thanks Jaime, that's what I was trying to get out in my post.

Now, if Welles had lived to see his name attached to A & E's remake of "Ambersons", he might have actually broke down crying over the injustice!

[Tony]

It's interesting to think what Welles would think about all the books, articles, documentaries etc. that have been done about him since his death; would he merely lambaste Callow, Thompson et. al. or would he take them out to the woodshed?

And how would all those books, docs, etc. have been different if he had lived longer? What if he had gotten financing finally for Cradle, Lear, Brass, Quixote, Wind and Dreamers? Or even one or two of them: everything would have been different.

everything... ???

[jaime marzol]

ryan, i'm not positive, but i think that quote came from the frank brady book.

[Tashman]

It happened while Welles was staying at PB's house. The story is retold in his intro to TiOW.

[jaime marzol]

rosenbaum's, and bogdanovich's intros in that book are nothing short of fabulous. and what follows is even better.

bogdanovich has written some fabulous stuff. WHO THE DEVIL MADE IT, and PIECES OF TIME are both euphoric reads. the hawks, and hitch interviews in WHO THE DEVIL MADE IT are the best interviews on those guys i've ever read.

and now, back to AMBERSONS----

[atcolomb]

I did read somewhere that in the early 70's Welles was thinking of getting together both Joseph Cotton and Agnes Moorehead and film a new ending for Ambersons but Agnes died before he had a chance to try it.

[fanwelles]

Re. your recent post, atcolomb - I was interested to learn about Welles considering a different ending to Ambersons in the early 70's. With no RKO to stop him, or cut his project to ribbons, and a more liberal, enlightened society to view his work with a less jaundiced(?) eye, Welles could have got the last laugh on those RKO execs. who had forced him to become a kind of artistic pariah. But...I suppose the project
had to be abandoned because of Welles' old "enemy" - lack of appropriate funds?

[Glenn Anders]

Dear atcolomb and fanwelles: This topic has been discussed here by more competent people than myself, but the basic problem, I think you will find, is that RKO owned the negative of THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS (unlike that of CITIZEN KANE, over which his initial contract gave Welles and his estate some control). In those days before restorations and director's cut DVD's, Studios did not want anyone diddling their copyrighted material. RKO guarded its options to the extent that it carelessly destroyed out-takes, stills, and extra footage from . . . AMBERSONS. Yet they had no interest in re-issuing the film or preparing a TV edition; it was a matter of turf. THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS was just a fotgotten flop, so much junk in a vault to most RKO executives.

Welles would have had to pay a premium for the use of the film, had the Studio wanted to join the project, which was not likely, and he would have had to gather up and pay his old Mercury Players. Scheduling might have been the real hitch with the players because many of them subsequently dropped current projects to take part in his later productions.

Perhaps others here can give you the chapter and verse.

Glenn

[Gordon]

I did read somewhere that in the early 70's Welles was thinking of getting together both Joseph Cotton and Agnes Moorehead and film a new ending for Ambersons but Agnes died before he had a chance to try it.

With no RKO to stop him, or cut his project to ribbons, and a more liberal, enlightened society to view his work with a less jaundiced(?) eye, Welles could have got the last laugh on those RKO execs.

Welles would have had to pay a premium for the use of the film, had the Studio wanted to join the project, which was not likely, and he would have had to gather up and pay his old Mercury Players.

At the time in question, the RKO catalog was managed by Ben Barry.
Ben is still living. Earlier this year he told me that he met with Welles to try to put together a re-done ending for Ambersons and that it did not happen because he couldn't come up with the money necessary.

[Tony]

I guess it's not that strange that RKO/Paramount would have been interested in re-releasing a Welles-modified version of Ambersons in the early 70s, as Kane was (again) #1 and Ambersons was #8 on the Sight and Sound poll in 1972: Welles looked to be in an artistic rennaissance.

[atcolomb]

The info about Welles wanting to add a new ending to Ambersons came from a book written about him ( i do not know which one since i have read many of them! ) and it was wishfull thinking for him to try it but Glenn Anders is right saying the studios would have given him a hard time with the project and since the movie was a flop they would not care to help him with it. Many studios in the early 70's were losing money and for a studio to fix and rerelease a movie that would not make money back for them would not be worth it.