The Magnificent Ambersons home experience

[Narshty]

Since I don't have a laserdisc player, I opted for the French SE DVD and Robert Carringer's (highly controversial) Reconstruction.

Is this as good as it (currently) gets for The Magnificent Ambersons at home?

I heard Robert Carringer's Criterion commentary track was pretty bad from DVDLaser.com (a fantastic laserdisc and DVD review resource site):

Robert Carringer's jacket notes give a more coherent summary of Ambersons than his rambling 80-minute lecture. He takes an unusually literal approach to what is depicted on the screen and spends most of his time discussing the details of the production and where missing footage was once inserted.

In any case, please reassure me that I did the right thing with my purchases. Are there any storyboards or documents from Criterion's laserdisc that aren't in the book, or vice-versa?

[Jaime N. Christley]

Hey Narshty, good to see you.

I've listened to the Carringer track, and I think it's excellent. I'll bet his voice tends to put people off, which makes listening to commentary tracks by historians and professors tough, 'cause many of them, like Michael Jeck and Laura Mulvey, don't exactly have the, shall we say, sexiest speaking voices. I think Alexandra Stewart, who narrated Marker's Sans soleil and The Last Bolshevik, should do commentary tracks as often as possible - have the experts write them, and then get her in to recite them. She makes me feel like I'm in the womb.

Oops, got a bit off track. Anyway, the Carringer audio essay is very good, highly educational. I learned a lot about the movie that I didn't know before, and since it's keyed to the imagery and the editing, etc., it's much more than a lecture.

I'm gonna pick up the French disc, regardless, simply because Jeff's screen captures look great, and I can watch the whole thing without flipping discs and whatnot. It's absolutely inexcusable that the movie hasn't been released on DVD in the US. But not surprising.

[jaime marzol]

opinion #2 on carringer commentary of voyager disc.

i thought it was pretty dull. carringer is dull. he's like lisyening to a sea sponge, and didn't tell me anything i didn't alredy know.

i think the best commentary track on a welles product is myron meisel's on the voyager othello. they should have gotten meisel for kane and ambersons.

jaime c. is obviously not a film beginer, and he liked the commentary, so i'm sure it's not ithout merit, but it didn't turn my screws.

[jaime marzol]

i don't agree on the sound of the voice with jaime c. if laura mulvey is the woman who does the commentary track on PEEPING TOM, that is a great commentary track. i have no problem with her sound. william zinser is a slow talking, carringer sounding old guy, but his audio tape on writing i listen to a few times a year because it gives you information. the quality of information can surpass the quality of personality in the voice.

it's so awfull to think that some would prefer a sexy voice purring the commentary. a woman who talks like the marilyn monroe character did in ASPHALT JUNGLE; "Yikes! Loooook at that angle! Yikes!"

[Welles Fan]

The Ambersons Laserdisc is most interesting IMO for the fact that it includes the script, stills from the cut scenes and Carringer telling us where a scene was supposed to go before it was cut. I agree that Carringer sounds "dull", but most commentary tracks, IMO are for beginners. Those of us who are Welles fans, who have read about the films of Welles since their college days at least (that would be mid-seventies for me) "don't need no stinking commentary track"!

If it is not the director of the film commenting, or if it is not an obscure film that needs a lot of commentary, the commentary falls flat. An ideal commentary is found on Criterion's Laserdisc of The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp. This is not a well-known film to most people, and Martin Scorsese reveals how the film inspired him as an aspiring filmmmaker. Then, the film's director, Michael Powell, provides his thoughts. I find it quite moving to hear Powell, barely alive, describe what he was going for in certain scenes, and then still be moved by some of the scenes. One of my favorite moments in Blimp, with or without commentary, is the scene between Roger Livesey and Deborah Kerr after Livesey has invited his German friend, Anton Walbrook to dinner. This is Kerr's last scene in the film as Livesey's wife (remember-she plays three (!) parts in this film), and Powell says "this is one of my favorite scenes. What a wonderful way to say goodbye to her". Then, as Livesey kisses her hand, Powell is a bit overcome with emotion as he says "Oh, dear".
Kerr does not die there. A montage of headlines aids in the passage of time before it is revealed that Livesey has suffered "an irreberable loss". But Powell knew this would be her last scene, and it was structured as a kind of goodbye to her. Now, when I watch the scene, it moves me in all kinds of ways. For one-every time I see a film in which a man's wife dies, I think of my own wife, and how I would feel at such a time (even though it is not a "death scene", it is all the more poignant or being a sort of mundane scene between a loving couple). Second, Kerr plays a sort of idealized version of Livesey's idea of a "the perfect woman" (and earlier in the film, he foolishly did not reveal his love to another woman played by Kerr, and so in this scene, he is losing her again). And thirdly, I am moved as Powell is moved as he watches the scene and comments on it. That, to me, is as good as film commentary on a laserdisc or DVD gets.

[jaime marzol]

...........

LIFE AND TIMES OF COL. BLIMP sounds great. the commentary track on BLACK NARCISUS, powell and scorsese, is also great.

got THE RED SHOES, 3 commentary tracks, will do that one soon.

a less moving but very informative commentary track is on voyager's THE PLAYER.

MIDNIGHT COWBOY also had a good commentary track, schleisinger.

[Narshty]

What size is the box of the French DVD? The size of a CD/jewel case, or something larger?

[Jeff Wilson]

The box is about 7 by 7, maybe? And the DVD comes in a digipak CD sized case.

[Welles Fan]

Posted by Narshty: In any case, please reassure me that I did the right thing with my purchases. Are there any storyboards or documents from Criterion's laserdisc that aren't in the book, or vice-versa?

Well, the Criterion LD is pretty hard to come by these days. Every time I see it at ebay, it goes for at least $100 or more ( I believe $100 was its original retail price). If you can get the LD (the one with all the cool stuff-they also released a movie-only version) at a good price, I'd get it. I certainly cannot see myself paying $100 for a LD.

[Narshty]

I don't have a LD player, but if I did I'd be rabidly collection Criterion's laserdiscs of films like...no, once I start, I'll never stop.

[jaime marzol]

.................

my laser disc rental store had a criterion section, maybe 40, 50 discs? it was heaven. then he fell in the tar pit with all the other dinosaurs.

the 2 laser disc rental stores i used to go to i enjoyed the snobery; not a vhs in sight, just discs. now they fill the store with vhs and throw in a few dvds.

[Jeff Wilson]

The nice thing about laserdisc is that nowadays you can get into it pretty cheaply. I bought my player off a friend about 4 years ago, when DVD was heating up, and many places had LDs going supercheap to get rid of them. I bought my copy of the Ambersons CAV set for $20 from a closeout sale, along with other Criterions for about $5 apiece. On eBay, discs go for a little more, and the rare Criterion titles still fetch a decent price, but most can be had for the cost of a DVD or less in many cases. I'm still waiting for the Criterion box of Gilliam's Baron Munchausen to come up again; I missed the end of an auction where it went for $40. This for a set that retailed for $150 when it was released. The Welles Criterions do seem to fetch a good price whenever they come up, though.

[Jaime N. Christley]

The Criterion Citizen Kane is up pretty often, considering there are four versions available (CAV, CLV, CAV 50th Anniversary, CLV 50th Anniversary), more if you count the design changes. In fact, the only one that gets people stirred up is the original, 1st printing, the one with the vertical "The Criterion Collection" logo.

Othello, F for Fake, and Confidential Report go for pretty high, but the original Ambersons LD is the most sought-after. There's a sealed one on auction that ends tomorrow, 1st printing, original design and everything.

Friend of mine who's even more obsessed with Criterion laserdiscs than I am tells me that, before LD went into the hole, CC had two more Welles films on the drawing table: The Lady from Shanghai and Chimes at Midnight.

[Jaime N. Christley]

Oh, and, speaking as someone who watches the eBay laserdisc section daily, the ones that go for the highest are Stray Dog, Robinson Crusoe on Mars, The Magnificent Ambersons, Blow Up, The Producers, Se7en, Confidential Report, Pulp Fiction, Salo, The Burmese Harp, and a few others. I saw F for Fake go for $255, but that's only because two people were trying to overbid, and one was more serious than the other. (I lost - I bid $250, it was a friend of mine who bid God knows what to beat me. Luckily, I got the LD later for $75.)

Of course, if you're me, you jump at the bargains - ie sellers who think laserdiscs are worthless and just want to get rid of 'em. I got mint condition, cover and disc(s), lasers of the following Criterions:

Pulp Fiction: $25
Se7en: $25
Confidential Report: $30
Blow Up: I'm not kidding, $16
The Producers: $13!
Salt of the Earth: $25
Vengeance is Mine: $20

[jaime marzol]

................

when all the hoopla was going on a few years back with touch of evil restoration, the encore series TOUCH OF EVIL disc went for $100 on ebay, because it says the director's cut, or restored version or something like that on it. the buying frenzy was on. now it's back to $15

also check half.com for discs, no bidding. you just buy direct from the seller.

i have my huge criterion kane disc listed there. have had no offers. there are so many versions of kane that mine has been lost in the crowd.