Criterion Othello laserdisc now on eBay

[rizibo]

but with her cooperation she could probably get criterion to release the original '52 version along with hers. And it would probably make her more money than the '92 version on dvd has made her.

She could also release the '92 version with the '52 version in the bonus section and she could try to have an alternative sound track showing the improvement she made or allow original sound track to be heard.


We should try to lower the price of this laser disc. Maybe we can spread rumors that Criterion is about to release the dvd version of the '52 version so people don't have to buy the laser disc to see the '52 version.

[Tony]

I've said this twice before, but I 'll say it again: from a reliable source I have heard that the 52 Cannes version does not exist, that it was only a temporary version put together for the festival, and that shortly thereafter it was revised.

The reliable source is François Thomas, a professor of film in France, the co-author of two books on Welles, including this one released last year:

[url=http://www.amazon.ca/Orson-Welles-Jean-Pierre-Berthomé/dp/2866424204/sr=1-43/qid=1167426346/ref=sr_1_43/702-0989940-1266400?ie=UTF8&s=books]http://www.amazon.ca/Orson-W....s=books[/url]

and the author of many articles, including one on the different versions of Othello.

:;):

[Terry]

Okay, but there is that "other" version, the one with Cloutier's own voice, the different dubbing, the longer first reel, and the different credits. Maybe we could call it the "Post-Cannes put prior to 1955" version! And even that exists in versions with and without the 'Dead Desdemona Close-up.' How about "Revised Cannes Version 1 and 2?"

[Roger Ryan]

Can we agree to call the "Post-Cannes Versions 1 and 2" the "European edits" to distinguish them from the 1955 U.S version and the 1992 reconstruction? That would simplify things (even thought that's nearly impossible when you're talking about Welles' body of work!).

[François Thomas]

Store and Roger : There is only one "post-Cannes" European version that I know of. That is the release version shown in France in September 1952. (The Cannes version was only a very poor, old work print that Welles showed because he could not obtain that his latest cut would be shipped. We will probably never see it again.) The release version retains Suzanne Cloutier's voice, the close-up of dead Desdemona and the spoken credits.

The version Welles recut and re-recorded because of United Artists (most probably as soon as 1953) was then released in the United States in 1955. We can only guess that Welles did not recut it again between the American release and the British one the following year. The 1955 version released on DVD by Criterion does not contain the close-up of the dead Desdemona, which Welles replaced with a blowup of a full shot of Desdemona to be found earlier in the scene.

The version that Intermission Productions worked on in 1991-2 is slightly different from the Criterion version. There are some twenty small editing or dialogue variations. And it, too, uses the close-up of the dead Desdemona.

Tony : Thanks for the good press ! :;):

[rizibo]

Thank you Mr. Francois Thomas for setting us straight. Being corrected by a scholar like yourself reminds me of the scene in Woody Allen's film Annie Hall where Woody Allen's character is arguing with a film critic about Marshall McCluhan and Woody Allen solves the arguement by bringing Marshall McCluhan in front of the camera and Marshall McCluhan then tells the critic he is wrong. This is funny and informative at the same time.

[colwood]

Ok, I'm not the smartest guy here and get easily confused by Welles edits, particularly with this film. As I now see it,

- the '52 Cannes version wasn't finalized and likely does not exist anymore.

- the earliest known version was shown in France in late '52. Would this be the "french version" that has been discussed here before?

- the next edit was the American one released in '55 with the british one released the following year. Does that mean at the 2005 Welles conference, the British or American one was shown? Or was it a english language edit of the French version?

Do I have it correct?

BTW, thank you François Thomas for your input.

[François Thomas]

Rizibo: I am not sure I understand the comparison. I am a critic, too!

Colwood: I guess wellesnet posters may have called the 1952 version the "French version." But it is French only to the extent that it was released in France first (both dubbed in French and in original version with subtitles).

I did not attend the "Othello" screening at the Locarno Film Festival in 2005, either I went there too late or I left too early. Legally, as you know, the 1952 and 1955 versions cannot be shown anymore. The only way to do it would be to announce a showing of the 1992 version, pay the rights and actually show one of the "authentic" versions. Even then, it is quite difficult to find a print. Some European film archives do have prints. (The National Film and Television Archive in London also has a "viewing copy" which is a temporary edit, though not very different from the 1952 one. It still has the spoken credits. It was acquired in 1979 from a British lab Welles did not pay at the time, so he did not ask it back.)

The 1952 version has been released on VHS in France but it is now out of print. It was regularly shown on TV before the 1992 version came up.

Yesterday, I forgot about the Italian version. One of the new pieces of information that Alberto Anile delivered at the Welles conference in Udine last year, and again in his book Orson Welles in Italia published last Fall, is that the Italian version was released first. It has different editing. According to Anile, it was released on November 29, 1951 in Rome, in two theatres, and in Milan the following day. Welles was dubbed by Gino Cervi (the communist mayor in The Little World of Don Camillo). For Welles, this was a mere temporary edit, but he had to let distributor Scalera recoup part of their investment.

[Roger Ryan]

The version that Intermission Productions worked on in 1991-2 is slightly different from the Criterion version. There are some twenty small editing or dialogue variations. And it, too, uses the close-up of the dead Desdemona.

The version screened in Locarno in 2005 was the 1952 English-language edit (with French subtitles as I recall). Regardless of where it came from, I'm glad it was screened, because everything about it from the audio mix to the editing was better than the '92 reconstruction.

Francois - Maybe I'm misreading your post, but the '92 reconstruction does not include the close-up of the dead Desdemona, but the blow-up of the full shot as seen in the 1955 U.S. edit.

[François Thomas]

Roger: Regarding the blow-up in the 1992 version : I just checked, you're right.

Needless to say, I share your opinion about the 1952 version.

[Terry]

I've seen the 1952 version in English without subtitles and without the close-up, just to muddy the waters further...

[François Thomas]

Where and when?

[colwood]

If I may, I believe the version Hadji is talking about was found last year by a Wellesnet member in the UK and mentioned here,
http://www.wellesnet.com/cgi-bin....o+again
As stated, it appears to be english language of the '52 "french" edit but does not have the close-up of Desdemona's face.

The one at Locarno apparently was exactly like the "french" edit and did include the close-up. I think it was mentioned here,
http://www.wellesnet.com/cgi-bin....o+again

Maybe it's me, but this seems to be getting almost as confusing as the Arkadin threads that existed before Criterions' release.

Anyway, here are a few more for your viewing pleasure,
http://www.wellesnet.com/cgi-bin....15;st=0
http://www.wellesnet.com/cgi-bin....o+again

If only we could get a "definitive" dvd release....

[rizibo]

I looked at my 1992 vhs copy of Othello and I noted the Beatrice Welles introduction in which she states she found the negative in New Jersey with the "original aluminum nitrate negative element. It was in excellent condition considering almost 40 years has gone by. Only the audio track needed some work. The dialogue was remixed and with todays technology we were able to synchronize the audio with the visual. And the musical score was transcribed note by note by conductor Michael Kandansky and was recorded by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and members of the Chicago Lyric Opera."

I wonder if Beatrice Welles was correct when she states that the original nitrate negative was found considering the fact that the close up of Desdemona after her death is not in this negative and also the sound track apparently was so bad that it required so much work. I believe the New Jersey negative is not the original negative but probable a copy. Maybe Beatrice Welles can release a Criterion dvd including the missing footage and use the original sound track present in the Criterion laser disc.

[Tony]

Maybe she 'fixed' the audio because it was so bad on the print she found?