othellos

Discuss the films of Welles's Shakespearean trilogy
Tony
Wellesnet Legend
Posts: 1044
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:44 pm

Postby Tony » Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:58 pm

I've just compared Orson's Othello with Beatrice's Othello, from the opening up to the point where Othello descends his staircase to meet Desdomona's father. Firstly, in Beatrice's version, the orchestra sound, in 1992 stereo, just doesn't match the picture you're seeing. It reminds me of Fantasia; about 10 years ago, Disney decided to "update" the music, so they stripped off Stokowski and the Philadelphia orchestra, and replaced it with... somebody. The problem was, a) 1999 digital stereo didn't match 1939 experimental stereo, and also, b) Stoki mixed the levels of the different instruments very carefully, whereas the new recordings were a traditional "flat" orchetra mix. The Orson mix for Othello also has different instruments in the orchestra highlighted at different times in an "unaturalistic" manner, but very effective.For example, I hear clarinets very high in the mix when Iago's parade intersects with the funeral march. So Orson's mix has different levels of sound within the orchestra itself, constantly changing, AND also mixing in very subtle ways with the other sound elements, such as sound effects,chanting, dialogue, etc. A very complex and subtle "sound design", learned by Orson in his radio years, and exemplified by the Universal memo on Touch of Evil. Well, it seems that Beatrice and her people had NO IDEA about any of this, as theirs is a flat, standard, non-changing orchestra mix, dropped onto the other sounds of the film; in other words, even though Orson was dealing with earlier sound technology, his soundtrack for Othello is more 3d than Beatrice's, and that much more intense and appropriate. In fact, immediately after watching the 1992 version, I watched the '52 version, and the death music at the very beginning is nothing short of shattering; whereas on the '92 its almost bland. ( By the way, the public outcry forced Disney to replace the Stoki 1939 soundtrack on Fantasia).

A second thing I noticed is that Beatrice's version is a cleaner print visually, but it is much darker at times then the '52, therefore obscuring many details.

And finally, there is an entire opening seuence in the 52 which precedes the point at which the 92 version begins; there's pictures of ships masts and rigging, people cavorting in windswept city squares,etc. and then we see Othello and Desdomona hget married. I wonder why this excision? Anybody know why?

User avatar
Welles Fan
Wellesnet Veteran
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 10:27 pm
Location: Texas USA

Postby Welles Fan » Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:18 am

Tony: I'm curious as to what print or video release you are referring to as "Orson's Version". Aside from Beatice's release of the film on VHS and DVD, the only other version I know of is the Criterion Laser edition. I'm wondering about that sequence you are referring to with the ships and stuff. Are you saying that this precedes the shot of Othello dead on the bier? I know there are similar shots later in the film, as Othello does the "Farewell" speech, and the emisarries arrive from Venice with news of Othello's recall.

I find the print quality of the Criterion version superior in all respects. As you point out, the Beatrice print is darker, and to me, a little fuzzy-looking.

I cannot think of why the Beartice version featured the new recording of the score. I mean, I can see re-recording a score if the original is virtually useless (like Prokoviev's original score for Alexander Nevsky-apparently no priint with a decent soundtrack exits, and meanwhile, Prokoviev had re-orchestrated the score for his thunderous cantata, and since the film was virtually a "silent" film, there is little problem with "matching" with the dialog). Also, adding a score to a silent film makes sense. But why re-record a score that sounded great in the first place? Also notice that in the scene where Othello's ship arrives in Cyprus, Iago is moving his mouth with no sound coming out of it (in the Beatrice version).

It is a shame a DVD version with all the commentaries and supplements that were on the Criterion Laserdisc version was not released. Instead, we get a DVD with a little documentary on the gratuitous re-scoring of the music.

User avatar
Jeff Wilson
Wellesnet Advanced
Posts: 936
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 7:21 pm
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Postby Jeff Wilson » Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:40 am

The music was re-scored in order to present the film in a stereo mix. As I've mentioned before, when they painstakingly went through the process of reconstructing the score by ear, they did a lot of unnecessary work, as Lavanigno's family holds the original score manuscripts, yet were never even asked to supply them.

Tony
Wellesnet Legend
Posts: 1044
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:44 pm

Postby Tony » Sat Jan 04, 2003 11:22 am

Welles Fan:
The copy I have is the '52 with a French soundtrack dubbed (unfortunately) that I got off TV about 10 years ago; the sequence I'm describing is after the funeral but before the wedding. They must have had separate elements to dub the French, as the sound effects and music are the same throughout the film. The music is mono and the peaks are a little distorted, but I think it's eminently usable, as I believe the Criterion disc shows. By the way, I read somewhere that Criterion is planning a 2003 Welles release, but it probably won't be Othello!

Jeff:
I've wondered why they transcribed by ear also; is it possible that Lavagnino was asked and refused (isn't he still alive? He's in the Rosabella documentary((hands down the best documentary on Welles, ever, IMO)). He might not have been able to stop them from using the music, as he was paid for it, but perhaps he tried to "disencourage" them,and Beatrice and her gang just went ahead. Just judging from the opening sequence, I believe the orchestration is quite different at some points. (I recall that Herrmann said that Welles was one of the few directors he had worked with who really understood music, and we know from his radio programs that Welles really understood sound.) It seems that Beatrice has none of her father's talent, but all of his stubborness. If my guess is correct, this does not bode well for the music of Chimes; why doesn't Beatrice just colourize and "stereoize" all of her Dad's pictures that she owns, and be done with it?

User avatar
Jeff Wilson
Wellesnet Advanced
Posts: 936
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 7:21 pm
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Postby Jeff Wilson » Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:32 pm

From what I read, the restoration crew simply didn't ask Lavanigno's family or him, as if they figured given the nature of the film's production, that such materials wouldn't exist. I don't see why he'd have been opposed, as that way they could have gotten it right, instead of what they ended up doing.

User avatar
maxrael
Wellesnet Veteran
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2001 8:57 am
Location: London, England
Contact:

Postby maxrael » Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:24 pm

sorry to be the bearer of sad tidings, but here's a copy of an e-mail i received from Criterion.

"Dear Max,

No Orson Welles films appear on our current production schedule.

Thanks,
JM

---original message follows------

> Could you please confirm or deny the rumour that
> Criterion intends to release an Orson Welles film this year? "

jbrooks
Wellesnet Veteran
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 1:00 pm

Postby jbrooks » Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:20 am

I've read in several places that Joseph Cotton does a cameo as a Senator in Othello. I've never been able to spot him myself. Does anyone know where and when he appears in the film?

User avatar
Le Chiffre
Site Admin
Posts: 2078
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:31 pm

Postby Le Chiffre » Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:33 pm

Joan Fontaine was also supposed to be one of the senators. I too have never been able to spot either her or Cotton.

Welles Fan,
As to why the music was re-recorded in stereo for Beatrice's restoration, it seems clear that it was done for advertising purposes - to help make Othello seem more like a "new" Welles film. The president of the Chicago Symphony told me that the producers of the restoration wanted to advertise the film as having music "re-recorded by the Chicago Symphony", even though the orchestra used for the sessions was a pick-up orchestra that had only a few CSO members (including the guy that did the transcribing). The CSO pres quickly put the kabosh on any such advertising.

I can think of two likely reasons why they transcribed Lavignino's score by ear instead of using his parts. First, it may have been a way of avoiding having to pay him any royalties; and second, as Tony said, I think it is possible that he would have refused to give his consent for the music to be re-recorded, especially when it was done in stereo without Welles involvement.

User avatar
jaime marzol
Wellesnet Legend
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2001 3:24 am

Postby jaime marzol » Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:46 pm

...............

tony:
have you watched your french othello beside the voyager othello, and are there differences in the footage used? i've always felt that the voyager othello (excellent as it is compared to the restored) had too much grey. does your french tape have less grey, more black, luminous white?

Tony
Wellesnet Legend
Posts: 1044
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:44 pm

Postby Tony » Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:40 pm

Jaime:
I've never seen the Voyager Othello; my guess is it's the same as the French, i.e. the French is the Voyager dubbed. Thank God we've still got the Voyager, or we'd have to have yet another discovery of Welles's truly lost masterpiece "Othello" in 10 years time. As I mentioned, the "French" version just looks a lot brighter than Beatrice's; the latter actually obscures details.

alan smithee
Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 5:44 am

Postby alan smithee » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:31 am

When The Tragedy of Othello is screened in Europe, Welles is already working on a different version for the american market (distributed three years later in USA and titled The Tragedy of Othello, The Moor of Venice): three minutes shorter, with different editing (the wonderful spoken opening credits on Venice landscapes are cut) and sound (some actors – even mac Liammoir – arte partially or completely dubbed by Welles itself, Suzanne Cloutier by Gudrun Ure, who plays Desdemona in the Othello at London’s St. James Teather, directed by Welles for financing the editing of the film). A slightly different print of this american version, with others minimal differences, is found in a New Jersey deposit and used for the ‘restoration’. That’s the reason of differences between the european and american prints. NB for Welles maniacs: during my marocan journey I found that the magnificent funeral scene isn’t shoot outside the Safi or Mogador fortress (except the ‘cage’ shots that are in Mazagan - now El Jadida - portuguese citadel) but in the opening place in front of the Scalera film in Rome, with miniatures of towers and walls built by Oberdan Trojani (who shows me even some photos of set). Bye.

User avatar
ToddBaesen
Wellesnet Advanced
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2001 12:00 am
Location: San Francisco

Postby ToddBaesen » Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:45 pm

-


Here's what ROSENBAUM has to say about OTHELLO:


LAWRENCE FRENCH: When they did the restoration on OTHELLO they actually went through the process of transcribing Francesco Lavagnino's score, when the original manuscript was apparently readily available for consultation in Italy.

JONATHAN ROSENBAUM: I know it, and members of Lavagnino's family were aghast with the result. I talked to his children and they said, "this is not my father's work." They actually were talking about suing over what was done to the music, because they were very pissed off, and I think they had good reason to be.

LAWRENCE FRENCH: It just shows how little research actually went into that restoration. Why bother to transcribe the score, if the composer's original manuscript could be consulted?

JONATHAN ROSENBAUM: They found a guy who works for the Chicago symphony, Michael Pendowski to do it, who I interviewed, but he was somebody who knew nothing about Lavagnino's music, or about Orson Welles. He only heard two or three mandolins on the soundtrack, so now there are only two mandolins, instead of forty. The same thing, or worse with the sound effects. Michael Anderegg in his book, Orson
Welles, Popular Culture and Shakespeare, has discovered even more outrages in OTHELLO. He has actually determined that for the new version, they got different actors to re-dub some of the lines. Really, it's just mutilation. However, I must say, that's also been done to some of the restorations they are doing in Munich. The other thing, which is worse, is that according to Beatrice and Thomas White, it's now illegal to show Welles' own version of OTHELLO in the United States. In Europe you can still get the Welles version on video. But when Criterion brought out Welles original version on laserdisc, Beatrice got very angry and said they couldn't make any more copies. So she's made her own father's version illegal to show, because she doesn't get any money for it. They only found out about the Criterion laserdisc, after the fact, otherwise it would have never come out. Something else that's very funny and ironic about the new version of OTHELLO. When I wrote about it, I talked about the Gregorian chants that were missing from the opening scene, which Julian Schlossberg had removed. It was actually Michael Dawson (who supervised the restoration) who told me that, but off the record, because the restoration had gotten out of his control and Dawson was very upset about what Schlossberg had done. So it was thanks to him I was able to expose that, and the Gregorian chanting got restored for the video release. In fact, I even got a call from Julian Schlossberg, who was very apologetic. But nobody even knows why they removed it. That was the one thing I was able to correct, but of course, nothing else.
Did you also know that in the American version of OTHELLO, the voice of Desdemona was not done by Susan Cloutier?

LAWRENCE FRENCH: No, I knew that the European version had credits spoken by Welles, but without his narration.

JONATHAN ROSENBAUM: Yes, what happened was before the film opened at Cannes in 1952, Welles had done a stage version of OTHELLO in London, with the actress Gudrun Ure playing Desdemona and Peter Finch as Iago. It was a different interpretation of the part, and a very different production. So for the American version of OTHELLO, Welles got Gunrun Ure to re-dub the part. It's amazing, because nobody knows that, except a friend of mine in France, Francois Thomas, who did a dissertation on Welles sound work. So everything you get on the credits is wrong, because Welles never told anyone about it, he just did it.

-
Todd

Tony
Wellesnet Legend
Posts: 1044
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:44 pm

Postby Tony » Sat Feb 08, 2003 12:16 am

Todd: Can you please ask Lawrence why he has not published all the amazing interviews he has?

Thanks for the post!

User avatar
Welles Fan
Wellesnet Veteran
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 10:27 pm
Location: Texas USA

Postby Welles Fan » Sat Feb 08, 2003 2:54 pm

Great post, ToddBaesen! I'd like to read more of the interviews, too!
Boy, I'm glad I still have the Voyager Othello!
Wait a second....what if Beatrice ever looks in here?...uh, I mean...I wish I...uh...still had the Voyager version! My "restored" DVD is...um...great

User avatar
Cole
Wellesnet Veteran
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 7:22 pm

Postby Cole » Sat Feb 08, 2003 4:43 pm

Thanks for posting these Rosenbaum interview excerpts, Todd.

In the above interview Rosenbaum states, "In Europe you can still get the Welles version on video." Does anyone here know of a good source to get one of these European videos of OTHELLO? I'd love to have one of the European prints if the quality is relatively good.


Return to “Macbeth, Othello, Falstaff (Chimes at Midnight)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest