The Seven Arkadins

[DexyMan]

I am sure that many of you have read Jonathan Rosenbaum's article so I will just cut right to the chase...

I have read conflicting stories on the Spanish language version of the film. Some say that this version opens with the dead body that Welles claims was the first scene in his cut as well. Has anybody seen this film and can confirm if this is true?

Also, the version that Bogdonavich found in '61 is supposedly available on video, does anyone know which version that is? Amazon.com has a few different videos but I can't tell which one is which.

According to Rosenbaum, this is the closest version to being the real mccoy so I'm assuming this is the most popular version among Wellesians. Does anyone prefer a different version over that one?

I'm just curious as to how you guys feel about what I think is a very interesting film with an equally interesting history.

[Tony]

I have two versions: The first is "Mr. Arkadin". It has a title made up of newspaper articles,and no pictures of hanging bats at the end of the opening credits. It has only one castle party tale told by Arkadin: the scorpion and the frog story. But it does have 3 flashbacks to Van Stratten and Zhouk in the attic room:

a. Just before Sir Joseph's secretary gives Van Stratten the note by the lake
b. Just before Van Stratten interogates the junkie on the boat
c. Just before the Christmas party

So, including the opening scene and the closing scene with Zhouk's murder, Van Stratten and Zhouk have 5 scenes together, although the middle three are only a few seconds each.

My vhs was produced in 1985 by "Encore Video".

My second version is called "Confidential Report" and does not have the newspaper title; rather, the font is "typewriter" letters. At the end of the opening credits, as Van Stratten enters Zhouk's building, there is a cut to several hanging bats, over which the final credits are printed. And there are two stories told by Arkadin at the castle party: first, something about a cemetary, and a little later, the scorpion and the frog.

The short middle three flashbacks to Zhouk and Van Stratten in the attic are missing, and in their place Van Stratten does voice-overs with the same information. The editing seems quite smooth, and the voice-overs are done well. So in this version Van Stratten and Zhouk have just two scenes together, the opening one and the long farce at the end, which results with Zhouk's death.

This version was released by Janus films, and was put on vhs by Home Vision Cinema in 1997.

I don't believe the flashbacks make any significant difference; the film plays about the same, IMO.

[jaime marzol]

....................

THE 3 ARKADINS

1) HANGING BATS/2 PARTY SCENES/FLASH BACKS
this is the version released by voyager

2) NO BATS/1 PARTY SCENE/FLASH BACKS

3) NO BATS/1 PARTY SCENE/NO FLASH BACKS

i like all 3 versions. all 3 are incredibly interesting to me. a very radical film. truffaut credits arkdin for starting what we call today, THE FRENCH NEW WAVE.

[colwood]

Having not yet seen this film, I have a question. In this movie's link in the film folder here at Wellesnet, it's said that essentially there really is no Director's Cut. In that case, which version is the closest to what Orson intended? Is there a version that's closer than the others to what Orson intended? And which version is preferred by Wellesians?

[jaime marzol]

the 2 party scene, bats has more appeal to most. i recomend you get all 3.

they are like 4 bucks at half.com. buy a bunch of them. you find the 3 different versions. then you enter amazon.com through here, post the ones that are repeats for sale.

[DexyMan]

Ok, so the version with the bats and 2 party scenes is Confidential Report and is listed as being 99 minutes long, right? Has anyone seen the DVD version of this?

The 1 party scene-no bats-no flashbacks is the 93 minute version called Mr. Arkadin that is currently in print on DVD but is in TERRIBLE quality. That is the only version that I own.

So that leaves the third version of 1 party scene-no bats-flashbacks. How long is this version? I am assuming this is the version that Rosenbaum says that Bogdanovich found. But it sounds like Confidential Report is the most definitive version yet Rosenbaum claims that the version that Bogdanovich found was the closest to Welles' vision.

Also, the Spanish version begins with a dead lady being washed up on shore, which Welles said was how his cut started. Do any of these versions start with that?

Sorry for all the confusion, I'm just still a little confused.

[Dylan S]

On an older thread, the board's moderator Jeff Wilson said that he saw a few scenes from the Spanish version of Mr. Arkadin. Jeff, can you share with us a little bit about what you saw (did you see the beach scene)?

I think I read that the version Peter Bogdanovich saw in the 60's wasn't the Spanish version, but a completely different cut, longer and superior to any cut he had previously seen. As far as this print being in Peter's possession, I'm assuming that (if I have the story right), he saw this print only once in the 60's and he never saw it again. If anybody knows more, I'd love to hear a more complete version of the story.

I haven't seen this film yet either (it's not easy to find), but I've been looking into it. It looks like the best version we have now is Confidential Report.

It would be great if a team of film restorers would combine the four prints of Arkadin known to exist today and create a cut of the film we'd call the definitive edition.
Unfortunately, I can't see this happening in the next decade (unless it's done privately), but it would be great if this were to happen.

[Tony]

WARNING:Don't read this post if you haven't seen Mr. Arkadin/ Confidential Report!

Jaime:
It seems that between you and me, we have 4 different versions:

These are the two I have:

1. "Mr. Arkadin": (This has the title made up of bits of newspaper); it has no bats, 3 flashbacks and one castle story (scorpion and frog).

2. "Confidential Report": (This has the title spelled in "typewriter" letters); it has bats, no flashbacks and 2 castle stories (cemetary and scorpion and frog).

The next two are Jaime's:

3. Bats,flashbacks and 2 castle stories. (This is the Voyager Laserdisc version- I can't remember what it's called.)

4. No bats, no flashbacks, and one castle story.

So, it seems as though there are at least 4 different edits, probably none of them Welles'; neither of mine have the Beach scene at the beginning, which I'm guessing is the same shot of "Millie" as appears later in the story. As I said above, I think the movie plays just as well with or without the "flashbacks". And when I say "flashbacks", I feel a little guilty, because strictly speaking, they aren't flashbacks at all; rather, they are "returns" to the present, the present being Van Stratten's conversation in the attic with Zhouk. Actually, the whole movie is a told flashback, the past being told to Zhouk by Van Stratten in the present. The movie only progresses in "real" time when Arkadin arrives at Zhouk's apartment block to kill him, and Van Stratten hides Zhouk in a neighbour's apartment. In my "Confidential Report", there are no "returns", but instead Van Stratten continues his telling the story to Zhouk, which we only hear as narration (so it does double duty, so to speak).
Personally, I almost prefer no "returns", as the picture is a little smoother, but I don't think any of these differences (titles, bats, "returns", castle stories) make a significant difference to how the picture plays; Welles own version must have been significantly different from anything we've seen, as all of these four are so similar to one another.

[Fredric]

Here is what I know:

There are three completed English language versions of Mr. Arkadin. The "preferred" Welles version is the same one discovered by Peter Bogdanovich in the early 60s and now resides with Corinth Films. They have no plans to release it on DVD as yet. This was edited together after it was taken from Welles but according to Welles, the editor followed his instructions very carefully, at least for the first reel. It begins with Guy Van Stratten finding Zouk in the attic and relaying the story through flashbacks. The film periodically returns to the attic for some banter between Zouk and Guy. It has only one fable.

The second version is a completely re-edited version called "Confidential Report". It begins with the attic sequence, and is told in flashback, but never returns to the attic until the story is all told. It has bats, two fables, extra scenes and voiceovers, and smoother storytelling, making it easier to comprehend, but less Wellesian in editing.

The third version is the public domain version, the only version available on DVD in the states, and is essentially the Corinth version with all the attic sequences removed (except where they occur in the chronolgy). So, the film becomes chronological and actually begins in the middle of a sentence! Extremely disjointed, becuase it contains the Welles "crazy" editing without the necessary tethers to keep the film coherent.

I have not seen the Spanish version.

I think there is one Mythical version that begins with the body on the beach and Zouk being released from prison, but I think the three above are the only ones we will get. An ideal DVD would be a two-discer with Confidential Report and the Corinth Arkadin.

Also, remember that Welles tended to edit and re-edit sequences again and again, even after they were "completed". He had such a love affair with the editing process that he would keep at it until someone stopped him, which was usually the case, before the entire film was complete. There probably was a version of Arkadin with the body on the beach, but it was probably a workprint, a jumping-off place for O to continue editing....

[jaime marzol]

tony:
are you sure about this?

"2. "Confidential Report": (This has the title spelled in "typewriter" letters); it has bats, no flashbacks and 2 castle stories (cemetary and scorpion and frog)."

if you are, there are 4 versions.

[Jeff Wilson]

To answer someone's question, I saw very little from the Spanish version; only one scene that I recall, and it wasn't anything special, just a dinner scene. More interesting was a sequence I saw with Welles rehearsing Paola Mori in her role, repeatedly making her do her line over. The only footage of Welles directing that I've seen.

[Macresarf1]

Hello, All. My name is Macresarf1, I have a hobby writing for Epinions. You might be interested in reading my experience in seeing a version of M. ARKADIN in the theater, during the summer of 1955. Here is the URL:

http://www.epinions.com/mvie-review-7A18-458AFFD2-3A4C153E-prod3

I hope to have some sessions here with you. You are a lively, scholarly and passionate crew. My kind of people! I am particularly interested in THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND and THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS, in terms of a release of these films as close to what Welles envisioned as possible.

Regards.

[Macresarf1]

[Jeff Wilson]

Welcome to the board, and thanks for the link. I was fascinated by your descriptions of the extra footage you saw. We can only hope it still survives somewhere.

[Mr Clay]

I have just been watching the UK VHS of Confidential Report - the version opening with bats, the three party tales, and bracketed by the 'present' scenes between Von Stratten and Zouk.
It is much better viewing the second time, as the initial awfulness of Robert Arden and Patricia Medina's acting and the clearly savage cuts in the editing room are overshadowed by the visual brilliance of the film's many striking tableaux.
One can see why Godard and Truffaut found it so inspiring, it is a case of the power of pure image overcoming a completely unconvincing narrative.
Interesting to note the early appearance of Auric Goldfinger as one of the Munich policeman as Von Stratten makes his way to Arkadin's christmas party.
Can't help thinking how Anthony Perkins would have played it if he had been chosen for the role of Von Stratten....

[Macresarf1]

Thanks for the welcome, Jeff.

I rather think that Stanley Baker would have been the man to replace Arden. However, comparing the film in my memory, from 1955, I think Arden's performance in M. ARKADIN has suffered in subsequent cuttings more than any other element. (M. ARKADIN, by the way, was the title originally announced by Welles in the London papers of the time.) The tempo and flashback scheme of the original allowed the callow, needy character of Van Stratten to achieve some self-realization by the end, and Arden was quite effective. Later editions cause him to have jarring shifts of tone, destroying much of his effectiveness.

Van Stratten is rather like Harry Fabian, the character in Jules Dassin's NIGHT AND THE CITY (1950) in relation to Francis L. Sulivan, and perhaps inspires McKendrick and Odets (now there's a nexus) to put Tony Curtis and Burt Lancaster together in SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS. (Incidentally, Dassin would have been in Paris in 1955, making RIFIFI.)

Patricia Medina's Mily, on the other hand, is intended to be a hustler more deadly than the male, who goes to her death still on the make. But her murder is one more of Van Stratten's ethical failings.

Sure wish someone could dig up the original.

[Macresarf1]