The 58-Page Memo - thoughts and vagueries

[Knowles Noel Shane]

I read through this last night

[Oscar Christie]

Also, The Schmidlin-Murch cut ignores several editorial changes that Welles requested, while publicly coming out and claiming they made them all.

so . . . what is your opinion of The Schmidlin-Murch cut ?

[Knowles Noel Shane]

I do like it

[Hannaford]

Noel:

You make some very interesting comments and notes about what was changed in TOUCH OF EVIL, but I must strongly disagree with you on one major point regarding what Universal changed per Welles memos.

Namely, the 108 minute preview version was just that. A version that never got released, and never would have been released except for a strange quirk of fate. So when you say the studio did this change or that change, it's not really correct, because there were most likely several different preview cuts of the film. What the studio did, and what the world finally saw was the truncated 93 minute version.

There were obviously many changes Universal made in response to Welles various memos, along with their own ideas on how best to "fix" the film, but of course none of those changes can count as real changes, because they were just versions of the film on it's way to what finally got released: the 93 minute version.

As Jonathan Rosenbaum points out, we have no way of knowing exactly who did what to end up with the longer
preview version - which was uncovered in 1975 completely by accident - or exactly how and why those changes were made at the time. But since Universal had three different editors working on the film, had fired Welles, and even asked director Jack Arnold to come in and give his advice on how to fix the film, it's a safe bet to assume that there were many different versions and different rough cuts, before Universal ended up with it's final release version: the badly mutilated 93 minute version.

The strangest thing is why Universal would spend $20,000. or more to shoot all the extra scenes they felt were needed to
explain the plot and then cut most of them out of the version they finally released!

[jaime marzol]

i think the schmidlin murch thing is fabulous.

also, remember they had film owners looking over their shoulder, they couldn't get rough with it. if you get rough with it you see what might work and what might not. i had touch of evil in the editing comp, and re-edited the cross cutting more effectively, and recut the gang entering susan's room more effectively, and recreated the missing hotel scene with a few stills and scrolling dialogue. and made a dozen other changes that i don't remember but a list of the changes opens the svcd it's on. would be cool to super impose an oil well in the BG of that drive with vargas and susan.

i have not had time to read all of what knowles posted, above but it's fascinationg detective work and i printed it out for later.

[Johnny Dale]

i think the schmidlin murch thing is fabulous.

Yes it is

[Knowles Noel Shane]

My point was that the "Epstein" version was NOT the version that Welles had screened

[Roger Ryan]

Schmidlin and Murch had no additional footage to work from apart from the opening tracking shot sans credits. This would have to be the reason for certain requests not being honored (cuts happening on particular lines, close-ups not being removed, etc.). If there was no additional "coverage" for an edit to work, then changing it could be detrimental to the continuity of the scene. For example, they honored Welles' request to remove the close-up of Menzies in the file room, but a small chunk of dialogue had to go along with it! In regards to the intercutting of the "Grandi/Susan" & "Crime Scene" sequences, I believe this is perhaps the one example where Welles was in error in his memo. If I remember correctly, the Grandi line "we used to have a nice quiet town around here" is spoken during a pan as Akim Tamiroff steps away from the camera. This would make for an extremely awkward edit, not to mention that the connection to the lines spoken just prior to this would be lost (Jaime, how did this cut work in your version?). I believe Welles himself acknowledged that the cut might not work as he envisioned in his memo; as it is, I believe Schmidlin and Murch honored the intercutting request as far as they could with the material they had to work with.

The amazing thing is just how dead-on accurate Welles was in composing his memo after only viewing the completed film once. Virtually every change he requested improved the movie.

[jaime marzol]

yes, absolutely right, they had nothing to work with. in the memo welles tells the studio that certainly they could have edited the susan/grandy scene better from the wealth of film he provided. it makes you sad to think that all this fabulous footage is gone forever. you can see it on the screen what a
marvelous time they had making this film.

in one of my books it says the welles rushes were drawing an audience and applause.

[Oscar Christie]

yes, absolutely right, they had nothing to work with.

and so we can all agree that given the constraints they were faced with, they made a significant contribution and are to be congratulated!

[Knowles Noel Shane]

This should be a forum for pithy posts - not character assassination, but it is open to the entire planet - so I guess we'll get all types, and we are all very adamant in our opinions, which don't always jive, and that just adds zest. How boring we'd be if we all agreed with each other! But if Mr. Schmidlin got smeared to the point that he didn't wish to post any more, then that is a loss and to be lamented.

[Wilson]

The Schmidlin saga has been chewed over more than enough. Let's return discussion to the film, or this thread will be locked. Thanks.

[Knowles Noel Shane]

I've never posted about your "Schmidlin Saga" before, Jeff. Why don't you lock your whole damn site?

[Wilson]

The comment wasn't aimed at you, just a general heading off of another detour into something already discussed more than enough and which causes more trouble than most other topics. No need to get upset about it.

[jaime marzol]

knowles, there was a welles board that was not moderated. schmidlin posted there, no one beleived he was the real schmidlin, and he was basically bombarded with every insult under the sun.

some one fingered me for the insults, and there were hundreds of insults. at that time i had dial-up modem. that page took 20 minutes to load. lets see, hundreds of insults at 20 minutes per insult. yes, it must have been me.

that is what oscar is alluding to without using names. jab jab, nudge nudge, wink wink. it is ancient history, has been chewed over dozens of times, and is very boring.

as much as some like oscar still have sour grapes feelings against me for that schmidlin debacle, the truth is, if you go to an unmoderated board and you get pummeled, and you don't leave, you keep coming back for more, who do you blame? it's like going to a mosh pit and complaining when you get slammed.