lady from shangai, confusion - what is missing from it..

[Lance Morrison]

i just got lady from shanghai and watched it a few times...though i found myself somewhat uninterested around the beginning, the latter part of the movie i found quite good. and i didnt think orson's accent was THAT bad, it was kind of charming I thought...

Anyways, what is bothering me about this movie is that the more I watch it the more it confuses me...I mean not the plot nessacerily but there are dialouge elements which seem to contridict each other a lot, or else maybe I am just easily confused. I cannot really think of any examples...if I do I will add them...anyways, I was wondering if anyone else felt as confused by some of the dialogue as I was...

and also, I know a lot of the fun house scene was cut out and they didnt heed orson's music suggestions (and orson didnt like the opening park scene) but does anyone know anything else that was changed? or was anything else changed? is there a continuity script anywhere that can show what the original form of the film was? A script might also help clear up my confusion...

I really did enjoy this film immenseley, I just would like a greater understanding...

[colwood]

I'm sure one of the veterans of these boards could give you better specifics, but from me, check out the film page here of The Stranger. It mentions an article from Video Watchdog (may-june 94) that contains articles about what's missing from both Stranger and LfS.

[Glenn Anders]

Yes, Lance, the Fun House Sequence was to have lasted 15 minutes. The significance of the Chinese Theater Sequence, which according to Barbara Leaming was to reflect a Brechtian influence, and other elements, in this case I gather the death of a love relationship, were largely lost. And the end of the film, as Welles shot it, would have had Mike O'Hara kneeling beside Elsa's body, guarding and mourning, as the police approached.

THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI, by the time of its release, comes on the cusp of Welles' more or less permanent leaving of the studios and his departure for Europe, and so there seems less evidence of continuity scripts about, but I would be surprised that Columbia or Bill Castle's estate would not have a copy.

Glenn.

[SFT]

Is it even worth hoping for a restored edtion of this film sometime in the future??

SFT

[colwood]

From everything I've heard here on the boards, I wouldn't count on it (pity).

[CFKane]

Is it possible to restore "The Lady from Shanghai" to what Welles wanted in the memo he sent to Harry Cohn? Peter Bogdonavitch claims the footage is lost but is this true? Did Columbia intentionally destory the footage like RKO did with "Ambersons?" It would be great if they could restore it but, alas, I fear what Welles invisioned will never be.

[Wilson]

I'm trying to remember if the memo was sent based on the theatrical cut or prior, but in any event, it's highly unlikely a restoration of any kind could be mounted. The footage is likely long gone, and while it's possible some music could be changed based on Welles' suggestions in the memo, how to go about choosing that music would be a problem, without specific selections by Welles and how they would be used, etc.

[Chirpy_Sabz]

I also found the first part not very interesting and then later the film got pretty good.

Its quite sad that so much footage was cut from the film, it might have been 10 times better but nevertheless it still has some good moments, like:

-the climax, the mirrors...that was interesting.
-good dialogues like, "Maybe I'll live so long that I'll forget her. Maybe I'll die trying" and "Everybody is somebody's fool."
-the court room sequence, it was funny
-the scene in the aquarium
-the bizarre character of George

[Orson&Jazz]

I liked the film. I can't imagine how much more I would have liked it if they left it the way Welles wanted it.

The Chinese Theatre scene was spectacular.
The Funhouse scene was surreal.
I especially liked Welles "shark" speech.
And some of the characters were so bizarre, they were unnerving.

It is an interesting film. It definitely had promise to be even better if it wasn't butchered.

[Chirpy_Sabz]

I liked the film. I can't imagine how much more I would have liked it if they left it the way Welles wanted it.

exactly, it kinda angers me ??? I cant imagine how Orson felt, seeing his work destoryed like that.

[Roger Ryan]

I read through the original script to "Shanghai" a number of years ago and while it differered considerably from what Welles ended up shooting, it certainly seemed more coherent than what reached the screen. Most of what was cut out or changed was the subtext and little asides Welles always loved. One sequence Welles complained about being cut was the scene where he and Grisby are walking up the mountain trail to the cliff edge; in Welles' original version of this scene, the viewer would have been treated to a cross-current of conversations regarding money and greed delivered by the various tourists seen entering and exiting the frame (what little of this remains is mixed very low under the music). This combined with the missing funhouse footage, which contained several grotesque allusions to the Elsa character, definitely suggests that Welles was taking a very stylized, surreal approach where the hero's perception of everything around him is weirdly altered by his predictament.

[R Kadin]

Clinton Heylin's book, Despite the System, provides some excellent analyses of what was lost in a number of Welles' films as a result of meddling. The Lady from Shanghai gets particularly good attention in that respect and, therefore, I highly recommend it.

[etimh]

Of course, he despised the beginning and was really saddened at the loss of the majority of the funhouse scene at the end. And we know he was disappointed in the sound editing. But he cut most of the film himself--this was mostly his edit. And he was relatively (and I mean, relatively, considering all of the contingent circumstances) satisfied with the way LFS came out, wasn't he?

Tim