TOE thread

[jaime marzol]

post removed by order of the altamonte springs police department

[Cole]

Jaime - very interesting. May I ask where you got it, and do you know who wrote it?

[jaime marzol]

cole:
i found the link to article at the aggressive welles board when it ussed to be good, sort of.

didn't realize i had not posted the header. here it is

Don Quixote: Orson Welles' SecretThe Inside Story of the Film Orson Welles called "Il Mio Bambino"by Audrey StaintonThis article originally appeared in Sight and Sound Autumn 1988, and is reprinted by permission.

[Obssessed_with_Orson]

so, in other words, everyone who i thought was a friend of Orson-, after reading his and their biography, was actually not?


now that is sad

bye the way, ive seen the cut and uncut versions of touch of evil, and one does look better than the other. one reason is because the scenes that were not in one were in the other

[jaime marzol]

nah. same scenes. just rearanged. and in some place quite well.

there is some new footage after vargas chases risto for throwing acid. vargas says, "i couldn't catch him" this is new footage.

but it's kind of light the resatoration. i don't mean visually. some parts were taken out and they had no footage to replace it with, so it seems lighter than the other version.

natalie, with no footage available to work with, the new touch of evil did not replace the other touch of evil. they should both be enjoyed.

maybe one day a box of footage will show up, and we'll see what welles did with those strippers.

welles seemed to have a fondness for strippers during the making of arkadin, with nightclubbing so extensive that he was sued by the producers.

he had strippers in touch of evil.

and mrs burstner in the trial, is a stripper.

[jaime marzol]

and in the trial screenplay K is watching dancing girls when the detectives summons him out.

[jaime marzol]

and in ambersons, he changed agnes moorehead's character's name to aunt fanny, a direct reference to her butt.

and in his first film, hearts of age, he showed a holy cross, a woman's hand was stroking up the shaft of the cross, and the cross photographed at an angle that an erect penis might be photographed at.

what do you suppose all this means?

[Welles Fan]

Posted by Jaime MArzol:
what do you suppose all this means?

That maybe you better lay off the hooch?-Hank Quinlan

[jaime marzol]

but the hooch helps you find this stuff

[Fredric]

My thesis:

A: Orson called Bogdanovich's Last Picture Show a "dirty" movie.
B: Orson called TOSOTW his own first "dirty" movie.
Conclusion: Orson's sexual references/metaphors in his previous films are unintentional.

That's my take.

[jaime marzol]

you can't beleive anything orson says. his convictions changed like the wind to accomodate his present situation. i don't blame him for that, with all the hardships he experienced, i understand.

but if you beleive in the auteur theory, all films fall prey to a director's subconscious drives and obssessions.

much like me, welles was obssessed with sex from his radio days till his later years. it didn't come to the surface till OSOTW. all his films are full of sexual imagery. some of the films are blatant about it: TOUCH OF EVIL, THE TRIAL, F-FOR FAKE, IMORTAL STORY.

[R Kadin]

Welles was the opposite of a naiif when it came consciously to making room for sex in his films. For example, the dancers from the "Kane" Inquirer celebration scene were unquestionably hookers in the filmed footage, something that Welles was going to use to get the Hays Office into a lather and stoke even more promotional controversy for the film. Oh, yes, and there were also the artistic issues about freedom of expression and making an adult point about the contrast between Kane's private crusader image and his private debauchery, yadda, yadda, yadda; so, Welles was apparently all geared up for a fight, but decided ultimately to leave out the racier scenes as he had more than enough controversy without them...so I'm told. The incestuous overtones of his treatment for Ambersons was no latent element, either. The Lady from Shanghai? You want deliberate sexual imagery? Look at almost any frame in that film. So, right from the start Welles and sex were themes that were never far apart, each from the other - onscreen or off, according to legend, at least.

[jaime marzol]

yeap, i always find a repressed/rampant sexual quality in welles' films. great stuff. and it's not underlined with close-ups and reaction shots. you gotta look for it.

[Cole]

Just a small correction to the above. George Minafer's aunt was named Fanny in the book. Orson didn't change her name in the movie.

[Welles Fan]

There's always the possibility that Orson inserted the rampant/repressed sexuality into his movies because...sex sells.

Sometimes an artist's work features sex just to titillate the audience. Remember the cockato in Kane, with the transparent eye? Much can be made of what it "represents", and why you can see straight thru the bird's eye, but O.W. said the screeching bird was there to "wake up the audience" and the eye thing was a technical mistake.