Touch of Evil aspect ratio - what's the real deal?

[TheMcGuffin]

Actually, to the contrary, little flubs are quite common in all hollywood pictures, from smaller budget movies like the first American Pie (where there is a C stand and a crew member walking through a shot) to the Jerry Maguire (where in the big football scene you can see a dolly track and crew in a shot). These little things slip by, usually to the knowledge of the filmmaker, for serveral reasons usually in this order 1) it was the best take 2) no one would notice the mistake because it was so quick 3) it would cost way too much to reshoot, or the cast wasn't available for a reshoot.

There are entire websites dedicated to pointing out these flubs. These things slip by because they happen so quick that they aren't noticed and until the shot is watched over and over again in the editing room.

Just my two cents...

[Jaime N. Christley]

It's still not a common problem.

[blunted by community]

maxreal, the jaime m. post you are refering to is where he writes about the stripper sign above rancho grande. like the castle in arkadin, this sign is visible as a location anchor point in much of the film. welles went through great pains to make sure this sign hovers above the in-town scenes, and in the letterbox version this is gone. also there is a lot of depth in the full screen version that is cut out of the letterbox version. i can't imagine welles cutting depth out of his film.

[Glenn Anders]

I agree with Blunted here. We want to see films the way the director wanted us to see them, not in some new trendy format of the moment. To my mind, it is either carelessness or a desire for people to throw away what they have and replace it, at the expense of the integrity of the work.

It was to this point that I made my remark about how I saw . . . KANE in 1941.

Glenn

[blunted by community]

absolutley, glenn.

and the reason i so fervently argue this, is that i am passionate about welles and everything he ever did. i hate the thought of some one new to welles seeing TOE in a less than desirable form and think that this is the best welles could do. it's not. most here admit that the lbx version has an over abundance of clipped heads, and some less than desirable framing, but no one seems to want to admit that the lbx version is a comglomerate rip-off designed to make us throw away what we have, and buy the new fangled version. perhaps it's because of their admiration for messiah schmidlin, who knows.

i also hate the thought of the restored version claiming to be orson welles' vision restored. it's not. they did the best they could with what they had, it's not restored to OW's vision. OW's vision, unfortunately, went the way of AMBERSONS; lost and gone forever.

[Welles Fan]

I am inclined to believe the current aspect ration was chosen to appeal to people with 16x9 TVs. When everyone had "square" TV's widescreen movies were cropped on the sides in order to fill up the screen. Who knows how many "square" movies will suffer now that the TV standard is widescreen. Already, Horror of Dracula, The first three James Bond films and A Hard Day's Night have been released on DVD in much wider editions than they were in the past (the Bonds on laserdisc were 1.66:1). I have done some comparisons in A Hard Day's Night, and there is definitely some decapitation going on.

I suspect the most ToE was meant to be matted to is 1.66:1 which is not very wide at all. It was, after all, a fairly low-budget affair, and was probably never destined for the 'A' movie treatment that Universal's "big" widescreen pictures received. I will try to post some side by side screen caps of both versions of ToE tonight or tomorrow.

[Anton]

I very much look forward to seeing them, Wellesfan. I too find the aspect-ratio discussion to be quite interesting.

[Wilson]

no one seems to want to admit that the lbx version is a comglomerate rip-off designed to make us throw away what we have, and buy the new fangled version. perhaps it's because of their admiration for messiah schmidlin, who knows.

I don't think anyone here regards Schmidlin as a "messiah", no more than you have an axe to grind against him. He claims he has research from people who worked on the film that it was shot to be screened at 1.85. Assuming these people and/or Schmidlin weren't lying, that simply can't be ignored, regardless of what you think about the full frame version. I don't disagree that 1.66 is better, though.

I am going to transfer my full frame tape of the '98 re-edit to DVD soon, so I will do some further screen caps if necessary, based on what Welles Fan provides.

[R Kadin]

Jeff - apropos my earlier posting (as yet unanswered), I take it from your comment, above, that there is a fuller-framed version of TOE restored out there on VHS, most likely in the form of tapes issued circa 1998(?). Is that your understanding, too?

I've been looking on Amazon and ebay for just such an item; but the rub has been that none of the descriptions offered provide any details on the presentation format used. Since I've already got the widescreen DVD, I don't need the same thing again on tape. And, as far as I can tell, there's nothing at all on laserdisc.

[Wilson]

No, there is no commercially available version in full frame. I was planning to transfer my copy taken off of cable TV when it screened back in '99 or so, along with the Reconctructing Evil docu.

[R Kadin]

Thanks, Jeff. With a little further checking, I did manage to scare up a "restored scenes" version (MCA Home Video) on laserdisc. As to what precisely is "restored", I guess I'll just have to find out when it arrives. I believe it's that "third version" which Rosenbaum claimed not to care for. Still, it does claim to be in the 1.33:1 aspect ratio. Here's hoping...

[Wilson]

The version you found is probably the preview version, which restored material cut from the '58 release version. It should run 108 minutes. It's the version that was around before the '98 re-edit. The '98 re-edit was never released on LD, so far as I know. The LD should be full frame 1.33:1.

[Welles Fan]

R Kadin: That laserdisc is almost certainly the pre-restored version. Previously, ToE was only available at a very short running time, based, I think on TV prints. There was a laserdisc released of a longer version with extra scenes and a better source print, and it was sometimes touted as "restored" (which it is, in a way).

It should still be the version that is not cut according to the suggestions in the memo, and it should have the credits and Mancini music at the beginning. It is still worth having. It is interesting to see the differences in the cutting and presentation.

Sorry I have not done any screen caps yet. for some reason, my ToE commercial version (the "widescreen" one) no longer plays well with my Power DVD player, which is what I use for screen capture. Plays ok with Windows Media Player, but I cannot do captures with it. Looks as if I will have to rent a copy. My fullscreen version is based (as is everyone else's) on the Encore showing on cable a few years ago.

[R Kadin]

Yeah, that jibes with the rest if the item's description. And I believe I did find a VHS full-screen copy of the 98 re-cut, too; so, soon I expect to have an interesting menagerie of versions.

If only there were real money in any of this...

[Wilson]

I can do screen caps with my version, if you want to avoid renting a copy. We would just have correlate where to do so, time-code wise.