how much Welles in Jane Eyre?

Journey into Fear, Jane Eyre, Black Magic, The Third Man, others
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maxrael
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Postby maxrael » Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:59 am

from amazon:

Made two years after Citizen Kane, this 1943 version of Charlotte Brontë's Jane Eyre sure looks like star Orson Welles muscled his way behind the camera much of the time. (In fact, costar Joan Fontaine--who plays the title character--has maintained that Welles methodically did just that every day on the set.) Not that the film's official director was a hack: Robert Stevenson, who later had a busy career at Disney making numerous live-action hits for the studio, such as Mary Poppins, gets the credit. But there's no mistaking Welles's masterful hand in the film's bold and creative look, and there's no getting away from his enigmatic charisma as Rochester, the widower who takes in Jane as a governess to his daughter. An engrossing, gorgeous film, there's even a small role for Elizabeth Taylor at the beginning as Jane's unlucky, doomed friend at a cruel boarding school. --Tom Keogh


i thought this had been discussed before, but i tried searching through the archives with no success!!

i also thought i'd read somewhere that OW himself had said that he wasn't that kind of producer, or similar... (why haven't i got my books with me?!)

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Postby Obssessed_with_Orson » Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:24 pm

as for orson himself, going by books, i thought he was always trying to be everything, from star to director, in every movie he was in. even if not his own.

there's a small part in citizen welles book, concerning "jane eyre", that says--
a role that once again incredibly suited his temperaments and talents


i thought in "tomorrow is forever" there was a little bit of, not as much as, his "jane eyre" role in there. strict, firm, different accent of course.

also in citizen welles, concerning "jane eyre":
Welles exercised a control over the production that extended beyond his capacity as actor. He tried to get as many of his own technicians as possible to work with him on the picture.


bye now!

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Postby Harvey Chartrand » Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:52 pm

Tomorrow Is Forever is the big step down for Welles.
Up until his dual role in that silly "woman's picture", Welles could still claim to be appearing in (if not making) quality pictures.
After Tomorrow Is Forever — which is rank assembly-line Hollywood factory garbage — Welles would lend his name to anything to bring in the bucks.
I see no evidence of Welles' guiding hand as a director in Tomorrow is Forever, credited to journeyman Irving Pichel.

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Postby Obssessed_with_Orson » Thu Feb 20, 2003 3:13 pm

seems like i'm finding all the movies, that orson is in, that suck while you guys are havin' luck findin' all the movies, that orson is in, that are wonderful.

i'll keep lookin'

bye now!

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Postby Dylan S » Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:08 pm

Hello,

Yeah, I've heard that Orson did direct certain scenes or certain portions of "Eyre." If Welles didn't direct any of it, that Welles look the film has that many are commenting on may be attributed to cinematographer George Barnes (who did some gorgeous work on "Spellbound," and is known for dream-like photography and interesting angles).

I thought Jane Eyre was quite a lovely film, especially the first hour. Welles is magnificent. Bernard Herrmann provided a marvelous score, very reminiscent in feel to his scores for Ambersons and Kane. Again, a lovely film.

I have heard great things about Tomorrow is Forever, it was on TCM a few days ago, I didn't catch it but my father did, and he thought it was great. I think I would like it very much, and I'll have to watch for it next time it's on. I've never heard of Welles' possible involvement in that film.

Best Regards,
Dylan

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maxrael
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Postby maxrael » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:54 am

here's the quote i was thinking of: (though i had it somewhat back to front!)

(from This Is Orson Welles)

PB: You had done Jane Eyre on the radio?
OW: Repeatedly - it was an old war-horse of ours.
PB: Parts of the film looked as though you had directed.
OW: Oh, I invented some of the shots - that's part of being that kind of producer. And I collaborated on it, but I didn't come around behind the camera and direct it. Certainly I did a lot more than a producer ought to, but Stevenson didn't mind that. And I don't want to take credit away from him, all of which he deserves. It was an impossible situation for him, because the basic setup is wrong if an actor is also a producer - it shouldn't happen. In fact, we got along very well, and there was no trouble.
PB: Had you ever wanted to direct Jane Eyre?
OW: No. Not my kind of picture. I was delighted to act in it, and very happy to do it, but I would never have chosen it. I think if I had a chance of directing sixty movies, Jane Eyre wouldn't be one of them.


I haven't seen Jane Eyre yet... but have recently ordered the Region 0 DVD that's currently available... so that's one to look forward to!

atb,
max!

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Postby Harvey Chartrand » Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:05 pm

I came across these user comments on 'Tomorrow Is Forever' on the Internet Movie Data Base and think the writer really nails what's wrong with this picture. Here is an excerpt from that critique:

"When you speak the name Orson Welles," Marlene Dietrich proclaimed, "you should kneel and make the sign of the cross!" Nowadays, few would disagree with paying such homage to filmdom's only true genius; but in 1945, Welles' name was anathema in Hollywood.

For the rest of his career, Welles would be relegated to supporting roles, voiceover narrations, and finally hitting rock-bottom by touting cheap wine on TV commercials, doing ANYTHING to raise enough funds in order to bequeath us such masterpieces as 'Othello' and 'Chimes at Midnight'.

"I subsidize myself," Welles said, receiving the American Film Institute's Life Achievement Award. "In other words, I'm crazy!"

(Tomorrow Is Forever) 1945's four-hanky weeper is a good example of just what rubbish Welles was willing to appear in to raise those funds. Welles portrays John MacDonald, who dashes off to WWI, leaving behind his wife, Elizabeth (a teary Claudette Colbert). John is declared MIA and Elizabeth announces to her employer, Lawrence Hamilton (the upstanding George Brent), that she is pregnant with John's child; however, this is 1945, so we can't say "pregnant." Naturally, Lawrence falls in love with Elizabeth, they marry, she has first John's child and then a child by Lawrence, but we don't see all that because the scene immediately shifts forward 20 years to find them all at the breakfast table.

Meanwhile, John is now living in Austria under the assumed name of Erik Kessler and for some unknown reason, speaking English with a preposterous mittel-European accent. He has also been horribly disfigured during the War, but in 1945, horrible disfigurement was suggested by rubbing black cork beneath Welles' eyelids.

John seeks passage to America and finds work as a research scientist in Lawrence Hamilton's company (!). Of course, John and Elizabeth meet and it remains unclear who recognizes whom and when.

Meanwhile, back at the manse, with war clouds gathering, Elizabeth's son Drew (Richard Long, looking amazingly like the young Orson Welles and doing a pretty good impersonation of Welles' mellifluous baritone) wants to join up and do his bit.

John dies suddenly, taking his secret that Drew is his son to the grave, having tossed into the lit fireplace a letter that would have explained it all to Drew. Unfortunately, Welles didn't have time to toss the script into the fireplace with it.

I give this stinker a BOMB rating - and indeed, if you see it, kneel and make the sign of the cross - and whisper a prayer for a brilliant career, in Purgatory.

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Postby jaime marzol » Tue Feb 25, 2003 5:13 am

i hated tomorrow is forever, but i did like seeing welles in that lee's press-on beard.

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Postby Obssessed_with_Orson » Tue Feb 25, 2003 10:32 am

ok. tis understandable that the lady's movies he did were for pay only. but were they so bad because of the sad and sappiness or because they were not done by orson?

maybe all three.

if that is so, isn't lady from shanghai consider a lady's movie? hmmm...on second thought, not sure. but considered very good because orson made it? if orson had made tomorrow is forever and jane eyre, would they not be considered bombs?

bye now!

p.s. he did look good in that beard in TIF

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Postby TheMcGuffin » Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:25 am

What is a good version of Jane Eyre to get...preferably on DVD? There is that region 0 i have seen on ebay a bit...but is there a good american one out there?

Rob

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Postby catbuglah » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:14 pm

Got me a Chinese DVD of Jane Eyre - quality's OK - It's got Agnes Moorhead and the Charlie's legal guardian from Citizen Kane - who are great in this one - I really like this movie although the ending is rather compressed there and it the gothic romance thing is pretty gothically romantic - but the whole darn thing has a nice Ambersons, Kane atmosphere what with them Hollywood production values and some nice virtuos camera shots that only Welles would do - one that still sticks in my head is that neat radiating shadow effect when Jane has to stand on a chair for hours on end.

Cheers,

Mark
...and blest are those whose blood and judgment are so well commingled, that they are not a pipe for fortune's finger to sound what stop she please. Give me that man that is not passion's slave, and I will wear him in my heart's core...

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Postby Wilson » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:35 pm

JANE EYRE will be coming out on DVD in the States next year, I believe.

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Postby TheMcGuffin » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:23 pm

Is it really? Dang i just poped some money down for the laserdisc.

The Welles version was actually the IMDB movie of the day a week or two and they called it the best screen version of the novel. I haven't seen any of the other versions but this is definatly my favorite of the movies Welles didnt direct...but kinda did (except Third Man which i see as more of an homage to welles with a few scenes welles probably directed).

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Postby Gus Moreno » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:42 pm

David Selznick received the official producing credit for "Jane Eyre", but Welles said he was the real producer of the film, and it's look and atmosphere certainly suggest that there's alot of truth to that. IMO Jane Eyre could be considered a Welles film in much the same way "Gone With the Wind" is generally considered to be a David Selznick film, perhaps even more so since Welles also starred in the film. Sometimes the producer is the primary creative force behind a film, and the director is basically a hired hand. Not to take anything away from Robert Stevenson, the director of the film, who went on to do fine work for Disney, including "Mary Poppins", but Welles's artistic personality does seem to dominate Jane Eyre. And yes, it is easily the best version of the Bronte classic on film, although a 1990s BBC version with Samantha Morton in the title role is pretty good too.

It'll be nice to have it available on DVD. Hopefully there'll be some interesting extras. As far as Welles's other acting movies of the time, "Tommorow is Forever" is a sappy stinker that doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as "Jane Eyre".

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Postby Tony » Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:30 pm

I have a confession to make: "Tomorrow is Forever" is one of my favourite Welles performances, and a beautiful story. Allowing for the times, I find the picture underrated and actually quite affecting. And Welles appearance presages his appearance 40 years later, minus some weight.

I've always liked the picture. Sorry! ???


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