David and Goliath - Megaphone holding dept.

Prince of Foxes, Black Rose, Long Hot Summer, Compulsion, others
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Le Chiffre
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Postby Le Chiffre » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:10 pm

When David and Abner are practicing spear throwing, there's horses running in circle in the background to make the frame interesting. Romulan ale?

Actually, I think that's one of the scenes I eliminated. Maybe I should take another look at it. Anyway, I second the recommendation on LORD MOUNTDRAGO. Essential viewing for any Welles fan.

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catbuglah
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Postby catbuglah » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:01 pm

I thought it was a neat little detail, not as striking as the Goliath shadow entrance - the real quick cut after David's rock hits the target a little later seems to me another little Wellesian touch. Another neat bit I like is when the army is first gathered, the men are spread out in weird zigzag arrangement that seems contrived but makes a great frame.
Must check Mountdrago, I'll put a second magnet on my fridge note. :)
...and blest are those whose blood and judgment are so well commingled, that they are not a pipe for fortune's finger to sound what stop she please. Give me that man that is not passion's slave, and I will wear him in my heart's core...

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Le Chiffre
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Postby Le Chiffre » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:46 pm

That battle scene is not all that bad. I think it could be reedited (and certain shots discreetly speeded up) into a pretty good climax for the film. Another touch I like is in the scene where King Ashtot addresses his Philistine Army leaders (and tells them how he regrets not killing that 'old imbecile' Saul when he had the chance). The gauntlet of guards holding up the torches reminded me of the arms protruding through the walls and holding up the candelabras in Cocteau's BEAUTY AND THE BEAST.

It's almost Pythonesque as it is.

Not an invalid point, Store Hadji. But that's one of the qualities I like about it. I don't want to overstate the film's potential. I'm not really talking about trimming 35-40 minutes in order to turn a bad movie into a good movie. I'm talking about trimming 35-40 minutes in order to turn an unwatchable piece of crap into a watchable guilty pleasure.

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Terry
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Postby Terry » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:57 pm

I couldn't finish it the other night. All I felt was guilt - no pleasure at all!

The sequence where Saul meets David was obviously directed by Welles, or at least the camera set-ups and movements - and that was worth seeing.
Sto Pro Veritate

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catbuglah
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Postby catbuglah » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:14 pm

The sequence where Saul meets David

Nice lighting on going on there... :p


The gauntlet of guards holding up the torches reminded me of the arms protruding through the walls and holding up the candelabras in Cocteau's BEAUTY AND THE BEAST.

...shades of Macbeth :angry: also - I like Cocteau :O , his drawing and painting - memo to self : have to check out his movies one day.

quizzes is fun:
:D

1. What type of weapon did David get from his girlfriend?
b) slingshot
2. Who predicted David's arrival?
c) Samuel
3. Who tried to kill David after his victory over Goliath?
d) Abner
4. Why did David get into a fight when he arrived to Jerusalem?
a) he gave water to a dying man
5. Which of these characters survived?
d) King Klaus
...and blest are those whose blood and judgment are so well commingled, that they are not a pipe for fortune's finger to sound what stop she please. Give me that man that is not passion's slave, and I will wear him in my heart's core...

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jaime marzol
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Postby jaime marzol » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:29 am

i watched some of this a few nights ago, it's interesting. terribly bad, but not bad enough to bore me. i laughed and kept watching. and how can you not laugh at a bad guy named abner!

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catbuglah
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Postby catbuglah » Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:59 pm

Mteal - That battle scene is not all that bad.

Not bad at all - The whole sequence where the troops assemble, the David and Goliath confrontation(just doin' a little taarrrrgit practice :) ), and the final melee is a good 20-minute swathe of interesting stuff. Awesome foshawsome. One can imagine the cavalry scenes being a kind of a practice run for the one in Chimes. The Welles tip-off here I think would be the galloping shot from UNDER the horse!

The quieter romantic scenes and the harp playing scenes are well-framed as well.

Peace out :cool:
...and blest are those whose blood and judgment are so well commingled, that they are not a pipe for fortune's finger to sound what stop she please. Give me that man that is not passion's slave, and I will wear him in my heart's core...

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dmolson
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Postby dmolson » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:17 pm

on p. 307 in Higham's 'THE RISE AND FALL OF AN AMERICAN GENIUS'...
"While shooting D&G in Italy, he kept Akim Tamiroff waiting in the backyard of the Safa Palatina studios so that he could work on Don Quixote between his scenes as King Saul. He would even direct his own scenes in D&G; ignoring the script, he built his part by putting together grains from Bible -- all the scenes involving Saul were essentially Orson Welles sequences..."

Duh, Higham. He was playing Saul, afterall.
:p

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Postby catbuglah » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:31 pm

Re-writing his own scenes - another Wellesian modus operandi - and another contribution to this film, while moonlighting on Quijote no less! I did notice a few passages from Saul's dialog that are fairly directly taken from the book of Samuel...
...and blest are those whose blood and judgment are so well commingled, that they are not a pipe for fortune's finger to sound what stop she please. Give me that man that is not passion's slave, and I will wear him in my heart's core...

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Postby catbuglah » Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

The Inside Story of the Film Orson Welles called “Il Mio Bambino”

By Audrey Stainton

Sight and Sound - Autumn 1988

This loose-page method of his exceeded all limits on David and Goliath. Ignoring the Italian screenplay, he just picked up the Bible, had me type out episodes concerning Saul and turned them into scenes–which he refused to hand over to the crew, either before, during, or after shooting. The assistant director was in despair at being left in the dark and, seeing his point, I finally yielded to his entreaties and took to making extra copies of those Top Secret pages of pure Bible and furtively handing them over, like a Russian spy in Berlin.

One night Welles caught me doing this and was enraged–as well he might be, I admit, for his scenes made mincemeat of the plot. He had killed off a character who was alive in the final scene (which had already been shot) and made another character turn up alive after he was dead. He had turned a deaf ear when I tried to point this out. Nor did he care if an Italian actor had been hired to play Samuel and had already shot some scenes. The part of Samuel was ideal for his friend Hilton Edwards, and by bringing him over and making Mimmo Salvi pay him a salary, he was not only giving Hilton some help with his disastrous financial situation, but also giving himself the combined pleasures of Hilton’s witty, convivial company and dependably fine performance, together with a chance to discuss their plans for a production at the Gaiety Theatre in Dublin of what was to become the stage version of his Chimes at Midnight. How many birds can you kill with one stone–and all at Mimmo Salvi’s expense? Later he had an idea: to let Francisco Reiguera earn some money by playing the Witch of Endor, a brainwave that wreaked havoc on Salvi’s budget and shooting schedule and compelled him to build an entirely new set in another studio (the De Paolis), since there was no room for it at the Safa Palatino Studio, where the rest of the film was being shot.

Poor Mimmo Salvi was no match for Welles, who took the attitude that anyone who dares involve a genius in a piece of trash can expect to be punished for his impudence. And punished Mimmo Salvi was, with a vengeance. I don’t think Welles considered David and Goliath a film at all, only a source of finance for Don Quixote, and as such to be pumped dry without a qualm in the name of true creativity.

I never saw David and Goliath after it was finished, but I understand they somehow managed to make sense of it by cutting and changing the dialogue and reducing it all to the lowest common denominator. On this level it was released, in second and third run cinemas, like any other undistinguished Italian epic. No one pounced on it as a curio. No one appeared to be startled by the effect of routine historical stodge amazingly interspersed, whenever Saul appeared on the scene, with snatches of biblical poetry and low angle photography in the inimitable style of Orson Welles.

But some of it must have been striking, because at first, for a while, Welles gave in to his irresistible urge to do all things well and seemed to forget that he was filming anything other than a deep psychological study of the character of Saul. For several nights he was all smiles; he charmed the crew. They kept on saying to me, “But he’s so nice! What’s all this talk of him being a monster?” Indeed, when he wanted to be nice, no one could be nicer. But he soon became bored and his boredom increased his behavior got worse and worse.

He was also making unreasonable demands on his exceptional stamina, shooting Don Quixote out in the country every day from 6 am to 4 pm and then driving straight into Rome to shoot David and Goliath from 5 pm until 2 in the morning. It then took him forty minutes to reach his home. The fact that this crazy schedule left him with only one or two hours sleep did not, on the face of it, seem to bother him much. In the daytime he was never tired, so driven was he by his love for Don Quixote. But those long nights playing Saul were heavy going. To help himself through, he drank a whole bottle of brandy each night, and as the level of the liquor went down, his temper flared up. He would lash out at the slightest provocation, such as when the wardrobe assistant handed him a moonstone ring to wear. “Don’t you know moonstone brings bad luck?” he screamed, hurling the ring to the far end of the stage and terrifying the culprit out of his wits. At other times, he would sink into glowering taciturnity and the venom in his eyes would be more frightening than his screams.

Towards the end, he was loathing every moment of what had become a self-imposed ordeal. At the same time, he was intent on dragging it out. He adopted all kinds of ruses to slow up the shooting, because the more nights it lasted, the more days he could afford to go on shooting Don Quixote, thanks to Mimmo Salvi’s incautious agreement to pay him five million lire per night, without limitation. He would excogitate complicated set-ups that took two hours to prepare, such as a great tower of scaffolding by virtue of which, while David was playing his harp, he and Saul were inexplicably perched high up in the air instead of on the ground. This had everyone baffled, but the whole crew kept a straight face until Paola Welles came breezing in and said, “What are you doing up there?” and just for once Welles looked like a little boy caught stealing the jam.

But if he was momentarily fazed by Paola’s candour, this did not deter him from having the scaffolding shifted to the far end of the floor for the next set-up. This gave him another two hours with Akim Tamiroff, who used to spend his nights out there in his Sancho Panza costume, sitting hunched up on a table with a blanket over his head, waiting for Welles to pop out and shoot a few close-ups whenever he could snatch the time.
...and blest are those whose blood and judgment are so well commingled, that they are not a pipe for fortune's finger to sound what stop she please. Give me that man that is not passion's slave, and I will wear him in my heart's core...


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