THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND Thread - 2002-2014 discussions

[RayKelly]

Roger,
Never thought you were even the least bit demanding. I just wanted to explain the limited details I had to offer.

[tonyw]

Ray, thank you for providing us with this important information and updates. Next year, I intend to teach a 300 level class on Welles to synchronize with his centenary based on ones I've done before. All this is very important in establishing the relevance of Welles today and introducing him to a new generation of students who now lack the film historical background we gained from so many years ago/

[GlennandersFraser]

Tony, Ray, all -- If one searches through Welles' films, especially the later and unfinished films, the number pictures that end with explosions or plumes of smoke is striking, too curious to be accidental. I rather think that they were a signal that more was to come, or that the film was not yet complete.

Does that observation fit into your discussion?

Glenn Anders

[Roger Ryan]

You may be onto to something there: KANE ends with a plume of smoke, AMBERSONS would have had heavy smoke hanging over the city, ARKADIN has a (probably inadvertent) plume of smoke in the distance at the end, TOUCH OF EVIL begins with an explosion, THE TRIAL ends with an explosion. I think the difference between these examples and, say, THE DEEP and WIND, is that Welles put off doing practical special effect shots due to budgetary concerns, probably hoping he'd get additional funds to pay for the effects near the end of production.

[mido505]

Esteve Riambau notes that Welles's original conception for DON QUIXOTE was to have ended with an atomic explosion, which he then utilized, in altered form, for the climax of THE TRIAL. The Goyaesque masque in MR. ARKADIN was also originally conceived as a sequence for DQ. Riambau believes that DQ served as a laboratory for images and sequences that Welles then utilized for various productions in the 60's, when he was unable or unwilling to use them in DQ, either for budgetary or conceptual reasons.

[mido505]

Regarding the L'EXPRESS article reference on the Wellesnet main page, it does not state that composer Michel Legrand and editor Pietro Scalia are attached to TOSOTW; it merely suggests that they could be, Legrand because he worked with Welles on FAKE, and Scalia because he, evidently, once expressed interest in the project.

As for the above ARKADIN-influenced post, WTF?

[RayKelly]

Mido,
The print version of L'Express, of which I had received a pdf of yesterday afternoon, contained the errors.
L'Express corrected all of those errors early this morning in its online edition -- perhaps after calls from the producers.
I am deleting the ARKADIN-influenced post. I assume the remarks about a plane crash with the Wind negative were supposed to be funny.

[mido505]

Thanks, Ray. You and Wellesnet are doing fantastic work on this stuff.

[admusicam]

I appologize for the "finaly not so funny"- Arkadin-TOSOTH remake.
I'm french, and my englih is not good, perhaps the words were much more on the wrong side?
It's many and many years I return every week to see and heard about this film in Wellesnet. As everybody, the increadible news of issuing the film was a beautiful and marvelous one. Reading the Express article and then moderator comment about the fact right now some journalists are going to publish some wrong info, and viewing the increadible photo of Welles vault in Paris, with all the box of he film, it make me thing about this plane going to america to begin the story of real complession of the film......and so go the image of Arkadin's plane begining the "confidential report". As you know, there are so many hoax jokes '(news on the march" Orson's jokes in CK and F for Fake...and the "other plane" story: Howard Hugues's one in the same film)... my contribution was just done in an enthousiastic and "légère" way. Of course the words of my post were right the ones used by Welles in Arkadin, I just can't imagine someone could read it seriously.

[Wellesnet]

No problem, admusicam, although it's way too early for April Fool's. Actually, I wish it WAS April Fool's Day, then we would have already gone through winter.

Here's an interesting blog entry on the Wind announcement by David Ehrenstein, frequent contributor to Shadowplay, with some nice embedded videos:
http://fablog.ehrensteinland.com/2014/1 ... bud-lives/

The Other Side of the Wind may have been initially inspired by Welles’ encounter with Hemingway but it also evokes John Ford — whose closeted gayness was discussed quite straightforwardly by Maureen O’Hara in her memoirs.

While not probably gay himself, Welles was a humungous Fag-Hag. He was fascinated by gay men ever since his first acting gigs for Michael MacLiammoir at the Abbey Theater — who went on to play Iago so memorably for Welles in Othello. Other Gays of import to him include Marc Blitzstein (whose The Cradle Will Rock he directed), Francois Reichenbach (see F For Fake) and of course Elmyr (ditto)

[RayKelly]

Agent Moonstone Entertainment announced on its website http://www.moonstonefilms.com that it will be representing The Other Side of the Wind at the American Film Market in Santa Monica. The company has an impressive 22-year history in the industry

[RayKelly]

The poster used to promote TOSOTW at the American Film Market can be seen http://www.wellesnet.com/?p=11394

[admusicam]

Instead of april 1, Arkadin final vol take place place in Christmas.... as the TOSOTW issue appear the greatest present we can dream about.
My post intended -as "legere" it was, to have a seriuos meanning back. When the news of an issue appeared on Wellesnet, I was preaparing an "open letter" to Oja Kodar, Beatrice Welles, Bogdanowitch, and who knows, about the (un/every/possible(s)) issue(s) of the film. A friend of mine was, as me, very dreamming for the film. We look so many times to fragments posted on internet, on the "one man band" documentary, in Gary Graver's own documentary (just few seconds), we were a little on dispear because one of the best exerpts (the one with the producer viewing rushs of the film) diseapared from youtube... and we were so many times on the lecture of the magnificent Locarno festival book on the film, or here in welles net. As so many members here, we where "dreamers" of Welles's film. My friend died one year ago. Sad to thing he could have see the film with another two years of life... What become clear for us, with time passing, is TOSOTW was for us a "true reality": a film we speak about so so many times, a film we know very well with the script, the photos, the ruschs. We were dreaming about it as a mental montage of it. This is Welles genius: not want to have someone viewing the film like a dead (final cut) thing, but like a living opus. It is the story of Citizen Kane: many persons chearching for the story of someone secret: as Arkadin story, as F For Fake, as The trial, Don Quixotte, as all the storys Welles was interrested about. The Welles films are a part of this quete: you are always chearching with him, thinking with him about the story and the way to narrate this story. The reality about TOSOTW is IT IS UNFINISHED and that the creator of the film is dead. It is the story narrated in the film. And it is the reality of the film. And that someone have to finish it. And every body dream about this completion, dream about "waht could be" the film. I am impressed by the fact the poster posted yesterday for the film Producer presentation could be the poster of "the film in the film": you only can see the two actors of the film called "The other side of the wind" in the film called TOSOFW. You can't see Huston, the party and other things like this. That's an interresting way to present it, as Hannaford's film poster. In the oppen letter to Kodar, Beatrice Welles and everybody, I tried to tell how I was pleased by the fact some rushs appeared from time to time on internet, and that's the "Welles TOSOTW" project was becomming to life like this. But I tried to tell it was not the only way. They don't be affraid by a theatre issue, or by the impression of killing Welles's film. Now, we have the "Great Way" to have it comming to life: an official issue in theatre as a "normal film" way. It's great. But it's not the end of the story: we will always cherching to see some "bonus", some other rushs, and probably many persons will propose another ways to cut the film. ---one possible issue could be a special dvd box with all the materials ---all the materials with photos, scripts, sounds, original negatives, work copies---- and a computer software to make your own "cut viewing " of all of this. Of course it seems impossible in the market system to issue this kind of things and so it is a very perfect dream in a Wellesian meaning.

...Nota bene that in my little hoax, there was no plane crash. It just disapered with nobody on board. In an another newspaper message (not to be posted due to the "direct" reaction in wellesnet, -I apologize another time for this contribution), the anonymous personn who give millions to complete the film had just going away with the negative: wanting to have it unpublished, or just for him (who knows?)... The real plane going to the US with the real negative is now flying to make the dream a reality: a dream of film becoming a film-in-a-theatre. But it will just go like this for few month or a couple of years: we all know the critics and debates will go on "is it a film by Orson Welles?" "Is it as Welles wanted it?" "Is it a crime?". And this debate and these questions are just stupied ones. Because not Welles questions. Every body know the F For Fake sequence about "signature". So many part of TOSOTW are intended to be filmed by amateurs, by many ways to see the story. This official issue will be a way to see the film -and it is part of Welles project to have this way. Jess Franco cutting of Don Quixotte never ended the dream of this film. It is just a (quite bad) chapter of the story of the Welles film-dream. Welles is the only one film maker who is able to continue to cut a film 30 after his death. And it will continue in the future!
...and to conclude with my aborted hoax... note that this is not the first time a film by Orson Welles reappered from an Ocean Hoax: It's all true/four men on a raft was suposed lost in the ocean... and then recovering from water...... an the last Welles film issue was supposed destructed in fire and then reapared from fire... water/fire: Orson Welles is just great in the costume of Vulcain/Posseidon/dreams maker!
Christophe.

NB: Please excuse the english...I do what I can....

[Wellesnet]

Thank you for a very good post, Christophe. We've taken the liberty of sprucing up some of your English, so as to avoid any further misunderstandings:

Instead of April 1, the Arkadin finale takes place place on Christmas.... and the issuing of TOSOTW appears the greatest present we can dream about.

My post intended - as "legere" (unthinking slight) it was - to have a serious meaning. When the news of an issue of TOSOTW appeared on Wellesnet, I was preparing an "open letter" to Oja Kodar, Beatrice Welles, Bogdanowitch, and who knows else, about the (un/every/possible(s)) issue(s) of the film. A friend of mine was, as me, very much dreaming for the film. We looked so many times to fragments posted on Internet, on the "One Man Band" documentary, in Gary Graver's own documentary (just a few seconds), and we were a little in despair because one of the best excerpts (the one with the producer viewing rushes of the film) disappeared from Youtube... and we were so many times reading the lecture of the magnificent Locarno festival book on the film, or here at Wellesnet. As are so many members here, we were "dreamers" of Welles's film.

My friend died one year ago. Sad to think he could have seen the film with another two years of life. What become clear for us, with time passing, is that TOSOTW was for us a "true reality": a film we spoke about so many times, a film we knew very well with the script, the photos, the rushes. We were dreaming about it as a mental montage of it. This is Welles genius: not wanting to have someone view the film like a dead (final cut) thing, but like a living opus. It is the story of Citizen Kane: many persons searching for the story of someone secret: as in the Arkadin story, as in F For Fake, as in The Trial, Don Quixotte, as in all the stories Welles was interested about. The Welles films are a part of this quete (quest): you are always searching with him, thinking with him about the story and the way to narrate this story.

The reality about TOSOTW is that IT IS UNFINISHED and that the creator of the film is dead. It is just like the story narrated in the film. And it is the reality of the film. And someone has to finish it. And everybody has dreamed about this completion, dreamed about "what could be" the film. I am impressed by the fact that the poster posted yesterday for the film Producer presentation could be the poster of "the film in the film": you only can see the two actors of the film called "The Other Side of the Wind" in the film called TOSOTW. You can't see Huston, the party and other things like this. That's an interesting way to present it, as Hannaford's film poster.

In the open letter to Kodar, Beatrice Welles and everybody, I tried to tell how I was pleased by the fact some rushes appeared from time to time on the Internet, and that the "Welles TOSOTW" project was coming to life like this. But I tried to tell it was not the only way. I tried to tell them they don't need to be afraid of a theatre issue, or by the impression of killing Welles's film. Now, we have the "Great Way" of having it come to life: an official issue in theatres as a "normal film”. It's great. But it's not the end of the story: we will always be searching to see some "bonus", some other rushes, and probably many persons will propose other ways to cut the film. One possible issue could be a special DVD box with all the materials ---all the materials with photos, scripts, sounds, original negatives, work copies---- and a computer software to make your own "cut viewing " of all of this. Of course it seems impossible in the market system to issue this kind of thing and so it is a very perfect dream in a Wellesian meaning.

...Nota bene (Note well) that in my little hoax, there was no plane crash. It just disappeared with nobody on board. In another newspaper message I prepared (not to be posted due to the "direct" reaction in Wellesnet, - I apologize another time for this contribution), the anonymous person who gave millions to complete the film had just gone away with the negative: wanting to have it unpublished, or just for him (who knows?).

The real plane going to the US with the real negative is now flying to make the dream a reality: a dream of the film becoming a film-in-a-theatre. But it will just go like this for few month or a couple of years: we all know the critics and debates will go on "is it a film by Orson Welles?" "Is it as Welles wanted it?" "Is it a crime?" And this debate and these questions are just stupid ones. Because they are not Welles questions. Everybody knows the F For Fake sequence about "signature". So many parts of TOSOTW were intended to be filmed by amateurs, in order to create many ways to see the story. This official issue will be a way to see the film -and it is part of Welles’s project to have it this way. Jess Franco’s cutting of Don Quixotte never ended the dream of that film. It is just a (quite bad) chapter of the story of the Welles film-dream. Welles is the only one film maker who is able to continue to cut a film 30 after his death. And it will continue in the future!

...and to conclude with my aborted hoax... note that this is not the first time a film by Orson Welles has reappeared from an Ocean Hoax: It's All True/Four Men on a Raft was supposedly lost in the ocean... and then was recovered from the water...... and the last Welles film issue (Too Much Johnson) was supposedly destroyed in a fire and then reappeared from fire... water/fire: Orson Welles is just great in the costume of Vulcan/Poseidon/dreams maker!
Christophe.

NB: Please excuse the English...I do what I can....

That's a very interesting observation about the poster. You're right: If you replace "Orson Welles" with "Jake Hannaford", it could almost be a poster for Hannaford's film!

[JMarie]

Has anyone interviewed Robert Random on his experience with Mr. Welles? I read he is retired and living in British Columbia, Canada.