‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

[Le Chiffre]

Great news this week, and seems almost miraculous considering what a complete mess the film has been in for so many years. I actually feel almost as much relieved as happy, although I’m feeling plenty of both. Hats off to Filip Jan Rymzsa for his heroic tenacity, and to Netflix for coming to the rescue and for their patience. Thanks to Oja's camp too for signing.

As for the assembly, they should try and replicate Welles's quirky, late editing style, but only as long as it doesn't screw up the film's narrative thrust and clarity. I trust Marshall and Bogdanovich to use their gut instinct to do what's best for the film and make something out of it that’s well worthy of the Orson Welles legacy. But even if the end result turns out to be disappointing, ANYTHING is better than a pile of cans sitting on a fucking warehouse skid for 40 more years, although someone like David Thomson might disagree.

[Wich2]

>I trust Marshall and Bogdanovich to use their gut instinct to do what's best for the film and make something out of it that’s well worthy of the Orson Welles legacy. But even if the end result turns out to be disappointing, ANYTHING is better than a pile of cans sitting on a fucking warehouse skid for 40 more years<

That pretty much says it, Boss.

Like the fixed TOUCH OF EVIL and still-augmented AMBERSONS, it will never be "Perfectly Welles"; but it beats nothing all to hell.

-Craig

[Le Chiffre]

...it will never be "Perfectly Welles"; but it beats nothing all to hell.

Exactly right, Craig. THE TRIAL could have been destroyed by Max Brod (as Kafka reportedly recommended), but he decided to save and assemble it instead. Even though it will never be perfectly Kafka, it's still a classic. The world of art is filled with such examples.

[Wellesnet]

Welles scholar and author (and Wind cast member) Joseph McBride weighs in-
Before the Beginning and After the End: An Insider’s Look at the Saga of ‘The Other Side of the Wind’:
http://www.wellesnet.com/other-side-of- ... h-mcbride/

[Jedediah Leland]

I trust Marshall and Bogdanovich to use their gut instinct to do what's best for the film and make something out of it that’s well worthy of the Orson Welles legacy.

Yup. They were with Welles through much of the filming; Bogdanovich got to know him at this stage of his life as well as practically anybody bar Oja and Gary Graver; and it's worth checking out Bogdanovich's first film, Targets (1968), which he edited himself (and which also had a climax filmed at the same Resada drive-in as TOSOTW - I don't know if he recommended the location to Welles?).

I know Bogdanovich hasn't physically edited a movie in decades, and I've seen an interview with him in which he said he hated editing (or at least, I think I recall him saying that!) - but very few people still around today have that kind of experience of editing. No-one's asking him to slave over the thing, hand-cutting it frame by frame, especially given the digital scanning underway and the scope for using computers; but I can think of no-one better placed to supervise the editing.

[Le Chiffre]

Bogdanovich's first film, Targets (1968), which he edited himself (and which also had a climax filmed at the same Resada drive-in as TOSOTW - I don't know if he recommended the location to Welles?)

Very interesting Jedediah, I didn't know it was the same drive-in. Reminds me of the bit in THIS IS ORSON WELLES, where Welles seems to imply that the Reichenbach documentary on him from 1968 (now included as an extra in Criterion's IMMORTAL STORY Bluray set) may have inspired the cameras that are all over Jake Hannaford's birthday party. More examples of how this project was like a hall of mirrors between art and life, kind of like TARGETS was (on a more modest scale), with Karloff basically playing himself.

[Wellesnet]

THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND negative is now at Technicolor, where a 4K scan is taking place:
https://www.facebook.com/Wellesnetcom/p ... =3&theater

[RayKelly]

I think my esteemed colleague has best summed up the now official Wellesnet position on The Other Side of the Wind:

I trust Marshall and Bogdanovich to use their gut instinct to do what's best for the film and make something out of it that’s well worthy of the Orson Welles legacy. But even if the end result turns out to be disappointing, ANYTHING is better than a pile of cans sitting on a fucking warehouse skid for 40 more years.

[Jay1968]

I'm so glad that I'm a subscriber to Netflix even though I really don't watch very much on there. I can't wait to see this film. This is the most exciting news. I bought Josh Karp's book shortly after it was released, but it's been sitting on my bookshelf in my Orson collection collecting dust. I guess it's time to take it down and read!

[Wellesnet]

IndieWire piece on TOSOTW with comments from Josh Karp, Jonathan Rosenbaum and A. Brad Schwartz.
http://www.indiewire.com/2017/03/orson-welles-the-other-side-of-the-wind-netflix-1201794549/

[jbrooks]

The Indiewire piece has a worrisome quote from Jonathan Rosenbaum. He says his role as a consultant will be "damage control" to keep others from cutting down the film within a film footage because that would "go against Welles' conception." Without having seen all the footage, of course, it is difficult to judge these things. But with that big caveat, I would put myself strongly in the Joseph McBride camp on this issue. The film-within-a-film footage is parody. It needs to be used sparingly. If those sequences run for more than a few minutes at a time or constitute 50% of the total film, it could be deadly. The editors need to aim for a film that works as a successful work of cinema -- not just one that conforms to Welles' alleged "conception."

The Indiewire piece also contains a quote from Jonathan Karp where he suggests the film could come within 99.5% of Welles' original vision. Again, I haven't seen the allegedly copious notes that Welles left, but I'm skeptical. Consider the scene of Hannaford's arrival at the party and the back and forth with Susan Strasberg and Bogdanovich. Would anyone other than Welles have been able to put together such a dynamic edit if all he or she had were the rushes and the screenplay? The answer is no. Someone talented might have come up with something dynamic and interesting in its own way -- but it would be different from Welles' version -- and different by a lot more than 0.5%.

[RayKelly]

The Indiewire piece has a worrisome quote from Jonathan Rosenbaum. He says his role as a consultant will be "damage control" to keep others from cutting down the film within a film footage because that would "go against Welles' conception." Without having seen all the footage, of course, it is difficult to judge these things. But with that big caveat, I would put myself strongly in the Joseph McBride camp on this issue. The film-within-a-film footage is parody. It needs to be used sparingly. If those sequences run for more than a few minutes at a time or constitute 50% of the total film, it could be deadly. The editors need to aim for a film that works as a successful work of cinema -- not just one that conforms to Welles' alleged "conception."

I was also disturbed by the use of the phrase "damage control," which implies that Frank Marshall and Peter Bogdanovich, left to their own devices, would ruin the movie. (I think I read somewhere that they had a few successful films between them.)
Hopefully, his remarks were simply taken out of context.
While Welles mentioned a 50/50 split once in an interview with Charles Champlin of the LA Times, there is no way of knowing with complete certainty what Welles would have decided in the editing room with all of the footage finally before him.
I have also seen more than two hours of TOSOTW footage and the use of the film-within-a-film scenes should be determined by Welles' notes, the scripts, recollections of those involved in the 1970s shoot and experienced, proven film editors -- not some pre-determined calculation.

[Le Chiffre]

jbrooks and Ray,
You guys raise good points, and since Rosenbaum is Oja's unofficial spokesman, it's not surprising he wants more emphasis on the footage where she is featured. On the other hand, if I understand correctly, the film-within-the-film footage is the 35mm stuff, and most if not all of the party scenes are done in either 16mm or 8mm, so if that's the case, that's something to consider too, depending on how commercial the completion team envisions this project being. A tough call.

[jbrooks]

and most if not all of the party scenes are done in either 16mm or 8mm, so if that's the case, that's something to consider too

Le Chiffre, that's an interesting point. But my guess is that that won't be much of a factor. With modern film scanning technologies and the use of digital intermediaries, 16mm film today can look almost indistinguishable from 35mm. There a number of recent theatrical movies and television shows shown in HD that have been shot in 16mm, and audiences don't notice or care. (Examples include Leaving Las Vegas, The Hurt Locker, Moonrise Kingdom and, on tv, The Walking Dead). Assuming the negatives have been well preserved, I would expect the 16mm material to look great. And even 8mm material could look fantastic. Of course, the producers may wish to keep some of it grainy -- to play up the idea that it's a found footage film reconstructed after Hannaford's death.

[MartynH]

I am so glad I was wrong about this film being finished. I never, ever, thought it would.

I contributed to the crowd funding and so, I hope, will receive a DVD. However, does anybody know if it will be released officially on DVD at some stage with all the extras? For if anything is crying out for a full monty of extras it's this one.

One last point. Being in the UK and missing out on the Mr Arkadin Region 1 box set, I hope everything will be region free.