‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Discuss two films from Welles' Oja Kodar/Gary Graver period
nickleschichoney
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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby nickleschichoney » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:03 pm

Wich2 wrote:Being built by external exaggeration with the goal of one-note comic effect, a surface Sketch character can never really establish any dimensional personal trait in an actual Drama.


At the risk of putting us two in another argumentative gridlock, please hear me out. Little's Otterlake intentionally has no dimensional personal traits. He does not emote. He does not feel. Everything that comes out of his mouth is drenched in dishonesty. Nothing he says is genuine.

Hence, in the scenes between Jake and Rich Little's Brooksie, Jake would be opening himself up, which he rarely does, to someone he considers his closest friend. However, that "friend" is revealed to be a completely hollow human being. All that Little would need to do for his part is give a reaction to Jake that is so obviously phony, so clearly forced, that it leaves no doubt he's no friend at all. He doesn't comprehend Jake the way a true friend would. The drama in these scenes would have rested on Huston's Jake realizing this.

Imagine the "ancestral throne" scene, for example: Little's Otterlake goes on a rant about Hannaford's father's suicide. His delivery is insincere, as if he's a robot reciting factoids, as if there's no gravity to the event at all. Rubbing salt in the wound, he adds a lot of impressions as if to show himself off. When we cut to Jake, the inevitable expression of heartbreak on his face, the look of someone being bled to death by a "friend" who obviously does not care for him, would stand out against and be enhanced by the stupid, careless antics Little's Otterlake is doing in the background.
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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby JMcBride » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:53 pm

What you sketch out sounds so much less interesting
than the finished film. What's the point of imagining
alternative versions if the alternatives would be so
inferior? That's an idle and reductive process
to indulge in. Bogdanovich asked Welles once why Kane
was more sympathetic in the film than in the script.
Welles replied that he found out more about the character
as he went along. That's true of great filmmakers, and you
can see that happening with, for instance, the Juliette Rich
character, who began as a caricature of Pauline Kael and,
thanks to the artistry and honesty of Welles and Susan
Strasberg, wound up far more dimensional and sympathetic
in her keen ability to see through Hannaford and others.

nickleschichoney
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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby nickleschichoney » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:03 pm

JMcBride wrote:What you sketch out sounds so much less interesting
than the finished film.


I'm not disagreeing with you. A more complex character is more interesting than a simple one. I too am glad Welles went with Peter Bogdanovich as Otterlake instead of Little. Little's departure was, as Ray Kelly put it, one of those "divine accidents" that made the movie better.

I can hold to that and simultaneously believe the film would have worked (or, to be precise, dramatically cohered) with Rich Little.

JMcBride wrote:What's the point of imagining
alternative versions if the alternatives would be so
inferior? That's an idle and reductive process
to indulge in.


I only did that to illustrate my point that there was more to Little's casting than his ability to do impressions. I was also using it against the argument that a sketch comedian wouldn't have added to the drama of the film in any way. My point was that, as Otterlake was written by the time he came on board, Rich Little didn't need to be a good actor for the movie to work with him in some way.

In fact, Otterlake's inability to convey real emotions was spelled out in the original scripted ending. After he takes the Dale wig off (the script says, "Much earlier we’ve seen him idly picking it from the
head of one of the dummies"), Otterlake says, "I’m better than I think... And much less funny -- "

Was Little's Otterlake different from and dimensionally inferior to Bogdanovich's? Yes. Was Little's Otterlake less effective a presence than Bogdanovich's? Yes.

But: Would Little's character have nevertheless worked in Welles's movie? Yes. Welles's concept was flexible enough to allow for a more "soulless" Otterlake.

JMcBride wrote:Bogdanovich asked Welles once why Kane
was more sympathetic in the film than in the script.
Welles replied that he found out more about the character
as he went along. That's true of great filmmakers...


Again, not disagreeing with you. What I'm doing is highlighting how Welles came around to doing just that with the Otterlake character. With Little's departure and Bogdanovich coming on board, he changed it for the better.
Pardon the user name. It's meant to be silly. -- Nic Ciccone

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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby I=Eye » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:35 pm

RayKelly wrote:
Jay wrote:Ray, any chance you can work your magic and get an update from Filip on the blu-rays the original project backers were promised? It's been quite some time with no updates.

Happy to ask. I will let you know if/when I hear back.

Any news from Filip Jan Rymsza on the Indiegogo blu-rays???????

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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby Wich2 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:08 pm

I would just agree with the points that Ray and Jim have developed. And say that ~

nickleschichoney wrote:Rich Little didn't need to be a good actor for the movie to work with him in some way.


~ that is precisely the point of yours that I have completely understood, and emphatically disagreed with, in this entire debate.

A not-good actor in a lead role has never served a film well. Because no matter the tricky effect intended by his/her casting, he/she will ultimately just annoy the audience.

Welles knew and loved good acting; too much, ultimately, to employ a variation on "The Sophia Coppola Gambit."

- Craig

nickleschichoney
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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby nickleschichoney » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:05 am

Wich2 wrote:I would just agree with the points that Ray and Jim have developed.


You mean Ray and Joseph?

Wich2 wrote:A not-good actor in a lead role has never served a film well. Because no matter the tricky effect intended by his/her casting, he/she will ultimately just annoy the audience.


And? Most of the stuff in Other Wind is pretty annoying to “the audience”. The point is, Little’s casting served the film. Of course, Bogdanovich's take on the character served the film better.
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Wich2
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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby Wich2 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:41 pm

nickleschichoney wrote:You mean Ray and Joseph?


I do indeed, and I thank you for the correction. (Sorry, Joseph; I was writing after all day in a hospital bed - playing a sick man!)

nickleschichoney wrote:Most of the stuff in Other Wind is pretty annoying to “the audience”. The point is, Little’s casting served the film.


I respect your not agreeing with my point; but alas, you aren't getting my point. And it's a simple one, that I was taught eons ago in our first semester at Stella's:

The performance of an annoying character, is a totally different thing from the presence of an annoying performance.

I think film history is rife with the proofs of that truism.

But - you win!

- Craig

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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby nickleschichoney » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:21 pm

Wich2 wrote:I respect your not agreeing with my point; but alas, you aren't getting my point. And it's a simple one, that I was taught eons ago in our first semester at Stella's:

The performance of an annoying character, is a totally different thing from the presence of an annoying performance.

I think film history is rife with the proofs of that truism.


I have understood your point. But I don’t think you’ve understood mine, possibly because I haven’t been clear enough.

Rich Little’s resulting performance would have been annoying in a manner that was appropriate for the character he was playing. Welles directed him in a way that wove Little’s limited range and capacities as a performer into the character of Otterlake as Welles conceived him at the time — as far as I can gather from the available Little-as-Otterlake footage.

As to how Welles did this, he may very well have told Little to play Otterlake as a complex, three-dimensional character, when Welles really wanted Otterlake to be one-dimensional and phony. Little’s earnest but artificial performance would, unknown to him, be woven into the drama.

For the record, I think Welles also did the same thing with MR ARKADIN’s Guy Van Stratten character when Robert Arden was brought on board: Welles changed Guy into a loudmouth idiot, unbeknownst to the actor Arden, to accommodate Arden’s acting range.

Welles was not above messing with his actors’ heads in this way, AFAIK.

But - you win!

- Craig


I apologize if I haven’t been very clear, but this isn’t about winning for me, and I definitely don’t deserve that tone from you.
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nickleschichoney
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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby nickleschichoney » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:01 pm

My understanding of Little’s Otterlake is not just based on speculation. It’s based on how his character comes off in the available footage and how Otterlake came across in the script.
Pardon the user name. It's meant to be silly. -- Nic Ciccone

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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby Wellesnet » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:31 pm

France's Union des compositeurs de musiques de films (Union of Composers of Film Music) gave its Best Film Score award to the late Michel Legrand for his score to THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND at a ceremony in Paris tonight.
http://www.wellesnet.com/michel-legrand-honor-other-side-wind/

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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby Wellesnet » Fri May 03, 2019 12:23 pm

With the kind permission of Julie Huntsinger, executive director of the Telluride Film Festival, and co-founder Tom Luddy, Wellesnet is delighted to present a 30-minute video of the panel discussion that accompanied the North American premiere of The Other Side of the Wind on September 1, 2018. http://www.wellesnet.com/video-telluride-panel-other-side-wind/


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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby Wellesnet » Fri May 31, 2019 8:20 am

Editor Bob Murawski talks about Grindhouse Releasing and (a bit) about The Other Side of the Wind in this new interview.
https://soundcloud.com/magnificentobsession/bob-murawski

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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby JMcBride » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:29 am

A podcast I did with Francisco Scartozzi, partly on Welles and THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE WIND but mostly about my work as one of the screenwriters
of ROCK 'N' ROLL HIGH SCHOOL. https://open.spotify.com/episode/3qfBNg ... zPyMCKHbHs

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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby Wellesnet » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:57 am

‘The Other Side of the Wind’ part of Eastern European film festival:
http://www.wellesnet.com/other-side-win ... -european/

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Re: ‘The Other Side of the Wind’ being finished in Los Angeles for Netflix

Postby RayKelly » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:06 pm

Nice interview with The Other Side of the Wind cutter Mo Henry in Variety: Negative Cutter Mo Henry’s Analog Skills Are Yet in Demand in a Digital Age

https://variety.com/2019/artisans/production/negative-cutter-mo-henry-1203277245/

    “My dad taught me that when you’re cutting a movie, you’re not just cutting a piece of plastic,” she says. “This is years of a writer’s life. This is a director’s big shot. This is an actor’s big break. It’s all the people who worked on the film and weren’t home for their families on weekends. You’re holding something really precious, and you have to show up for it, because it represents so much labor and so much love.”


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