Reactions to 'The Other Side of the Wind'

[MartynH]

Observation. I noticed a few weeks ago, but thought I'd share it now. Towards the end of the film Hannaford is caught in a spotlight in a darkened room with a marlin on the wall next to him. Symbolism of Hemingway and 'The Old Man and the Sea'?

That film was shown in the UK one evening when I was about 14 (1970) in the Midnight Movie series on BBC2 every Saturday night. It left a big impression on me. Of course, Spencer Tracey was 'made' for the part. Wonderful.

[Le Chiffre]

Good observation, MartynH. As Peter Jason has related, they went to great trouble to get that Marlin from a private owner, so it must have meant something important.

Another apparent Hemingway reference is the character of Lou Martin, the guy that sings the glowworm song just before the story moves to the drive-in. He is played by John Carroll, who bore a strong resemblance to Hemingway. That character is not in any script I've seen for the film, and Wiki says Carroll didn't join the cast until 1975, when filming was already pretty much complete, except for pickup shots. My guess is Welles didn't create the character until then either. Another mysterious change.

[MartynH]

To me, it's as if it supposed to represent 'the sharks are gnawing away at Jake'

[Le Chiffre]

Ah yes, a great white shark not only gnawed away at Jake, but also at Welles and the movie. I think it's name was Bruce.

BTW, a friend of mine finally got around to seeing Wind. He liked some of the performances, like Bogdanovich and Norman Foster, but didn't care for the film itself, saying it seemed like a bewildering hodgepodge of half-baked ideas. I didn't really know how to answer since that was sort of my first reaction to it too, although I prefer to think of the ideas as ambiguous, and as a longtime Welles fanatic I thoroughly enjoyed it all anyway and have re-watched it at least half a dozen times. Anybody?

[nickleschichoney]

Ah yes, a great white shark not only gnawed away at Jake, but also at Welles and the movie. I think it's name was Bruce.

BTW, a friend of mine finally got around to seeing Wind. He liked some of the performances, like Bogdanovich and Norman Foster, but didn't care for the film itself, saying it seemed like a bewildering hodgepodge of half-baked ideas. I didn't really know how to answer since that was sort of my first reaction to it too, although I prefer to think of the ideas as ambiguous, and as a longtime Welles fanatic I thoroughly enjoyed it all anyway and have re-watched it at least half a dozen times. Anybody?

I think I or others have pointed out before that it’s not supposed to be a clear film. It is, after all, a film about people constantly trying to hide their true feelings from the gaggle of cameras around them - especially Jake. And when they do come to the surface, it’s aggressive and powerful (“How about the roof over my head!”, the dummy shooting, the assault on the sharp-witted Julie Rich). There are, however, a few telling moments where we can see the pressure is mounting on Jake as he slowly realizes he’s thrown his career away at the party. It’s in the little facial expressions of Huston which get more and more frustrated, angry, and saddened as the film goes on, no matter how much he tries to keep up his confident macho persona.

Welles has made a film that is designed to feel like a dense jungle you have to hack your way through — it’s the most subtext-ridden film to come out this past year. Given the found footage format and the film’s dishonest, self-image obsessed characters, Welles doesn’t give the audience clear dramatic moments like he does in his other work — but he DOES give you enough evidence and visual information to let you know what drama is occurring between the main characters and in Jake’s own head. You just have to look carefully.

That’s not to say the film isn’t entertaining — it’s kinetic and has a lot of screwballish comedy — but the key to the film is in little subtle moments that give away what the characters are really feeling.

The film within the film, moreover, is placed so as to give the audience a breath from the ton of information and action that’s preceded it. And notice that the more the film within the film plays, the slower and more sombre the rhythms of the party become, and the more Hannaford realizes he’s finished and sinks into despair.

[RayKelly]

BTW, a friend of mine finally got around to seeing Wind. He liked some of the performances, like Bogdanovich and Norman Foster, but didn't care for the film itself, saying it seemed like a bewildering hodgepodge of half-baked ideas. I didn't really know how to answer since that was sort of my first reaction to it too, although I prefer to think of the ideas as ambiguous, and as a longtime Welles fanatic I thoroughly enjoyed it all anyway and have re-watched it at least half a dozen times. Anybody?

I have watched a few dozen times (not kidding) and it has become one of my favorite Welles movies.

[jbrooks]

I have watched a few dozen times (not kidding) and it has become one of my favorite Welles movies.

It's definitely among the top 13!

[JMcBride]

I enjoy John Carroll's character. I don't see him as Hemingwayesque,
but he's part of that old macho crowd, so maybe that fits. I don't know how he made it
into the movie -- sometimes Gary Graver would recommend
actors or other actors would do so (Mercedes McCambridge urged
Welles to cast Susan Strasberg), and sometimes Orson knew
people from his past or simply admired them (e.g., Tonio Selwart,
whom he had seen on the stage). All I know about Carroll's
performance is one night after working at Daily Variety I went
to Bogdanovich's house for filming, as I would do, and they
were about to film a musical number. John Carroll was
leading people in "The Glow-Worm." It wasn't clear why
this was being done, but when you see the movie it ties
in with Tonio's line about fireflies and other such references. Welles told me to get into
the group. I protested I didn't know the song. He said I could
read it off the cue cards. I said I couldn't read the cards, because he had
had made take the lenses out of my glasses for the part to avoid
reflections. So he told me just to stand there and mouth the
words with the other people, and that makes Pister look suitably
befuddled. Oh, and when I said I couldn't sing, Welles didn't mind.

During the making of one of our AFI Life Achievement Award tributes,
to Fred Astaire, I had to write (under protest) a spoof of "They Can't
That Away from Me" for a male chorus of stars to sign to serenade
Fred. I told George Stevens Jr. it was not a good idea and that no one would
do it. Why would male stars embarrass themselves by singing
and hoofing in top hats, white tie, and tails in front of Fred Astaire? Nelson Riddle (the celebrated arranger for Frank Sinatra and Judy Garland) was our musical director. He told me and Hermes Pan to sing the spoof
while he played the piano to do a demo tape to send to stars. I said
I couldn't sing. Nelson said, "Nonsense, everybody can sing." I did the
song, and Nelson looked up, stunned, and said, "You weren't kidding.
You really can't sing." We sent out the tape and only Jack Lemmon,
who was such a trouper, agreed to do it, so the idea was fortunately
scrapped. Oddly, I've sung in two movies besides OTHER WIND,
the pioneering cinéma-vérité documentary PRIMARY (among a crowd of 3,000 serenading JFK with his
campaign song, the spoof of "High Hopes") and James Ivory's THE WILD PARTY (the "Singapore
Sally" number with Raquel Welch).

[leamanc]

I have watched a few dozen times (not kidding) and it has become one of my favorite Welles movies.

Although I’ve only watched it a half dozen times, same here.

[RayKelly]

The Daily Californian's 2019 Snubby Awards: Top films that weren’t nominated for Oscars

Original score: Michel Legrand, “The Other Side of the Wind”

Decades after his last collaboration with Orson Welles, the late genius Michel Legrand composed one of his finest scores with his composition for Welles’ unearthed, incomplete masterpiece. A mischievous and melancholic spiral of swing jazz, Legrand’s work is one of the film’s essential qualities, breathing vigor into the ‘70s Hollywood party milieu while anticipating the death dream of its protagonist on the peripheries. It’s a staggering swan song from one of the best composers there’s ever been.

[Le Chiffre]

...sometimes Gary Graver would recommend actors or other actors would do so (Mercedes McCambridge urged Welles to cast Susan Strasberg), and sometimes Orson knew people from his past or simply admired them (e.g., Tonio Selwart, whom he had seen on the stage). All I know about Carroll's performance is one night after working at Daily Variety I went to Bogdanovich's house for filming, as I would do, and they were about to film a musical number. John Carroll was leading people in "The Glow-Worm." It wasn't clear why this was being done, but when you see the movie it ties in with Tonio's line about fireflies and other such references.

That's an interesting connection. I wasn't aware that a Glow-worm was a firefly.

It would be interesting to find out why Welles chose Carroll for the part. Or perhaps he chose (and wrote?) the part for Carroll?

Oddly, I've sung in two movies besides OTHER WIND, the pioneering cinéma-vérité documentary PRIMARY (among a crowd of 3,000 serenading JFK with his campaign song, the spoof of "High Hopes") and James Ivory's THE WILD PARTY (the "Singapore Sally" number with Raquel Welch).

I'd like to see Ivory's WILD PARTY sometime. I'll watch for you if I do.

The film within the film, moreover, is placed so as to give the audience a breath from the ton of information and action that’s preceded it. And notice that the more the film within the film plays, the slower and more sombre the rhythms of the party become, and the more Hannaford realizes he’s finished and sinks into despair.

Yes, the relationship between the two films is worth pondering. Hannaford's deteriorating psyche from the inside and the outside. Rosenbaum has already said that Oja's character in the FWTF is Hannaford's avatar.

I think I or others have pointed out before that it’s not supposed to be a clear film...Welles has made a film that is designed to feel like a dense jungle you have to hack your way through — it’s the most subtext-ridden film to come out this past year.

Another valid point. I don't know if I've ever seen a Welles film where Welles seemed to have so much to say, with so little certainty of meaning.

[nickleschichoney]

Another valid point. I don't know if I've ever seen a Welles film where Welles seemed to have so much to say, with so little certainty of meaning.

I’m not saying the meaning isn’t certain — just that it’s not immediately obvious. He presents you with enough evidence so that, if you’re paying attention, you can figure out what’s going on. Given who our public-image obsessed characters are, a subtext-ridden film about them and their struggles only follows logically.

As for the FWTF, that erotically-creepy car sex scene takes on a WHOLE different meaning once you get to the end of the movie... where you realize Hannaford has unrequited sexual feelings for his leading men.

[RayKelly]

As for the FWTF, that erotically-creepy car sex scene takes on a WHOLE different meaning once you get to the end of the movie... where you realize Hannaford has unrequited sexual feelings for his leading men.

Jake bought Dale a car as a gift — only to be sitting in it alone at the drive-in and watching him on the screen.

[JMcBride]

I tried not to let it bother me that THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND was shut
out in the Oscar nominations -- unlike in some of the critics' competitions --
because I know the Oscars are basically stupid. But after seeing many of
this year's largely mediocre crop of films (and realizing that
some other fine films were not nominated, such as THE DEATH OF
STALIN and WON'T YOU BE MY NEIGHBOR?), it genuinely rankles me that
Gary Graver did not win an Oscar for his cinematography as well as Orson Welles & Bob Murawski for their
editing. At the very least. They deserved it. And then there is John Huston for best actor
and Welles for best director. And the film for best picture. Or at least
nominations in those categories. Norman Foster and Susan Strasberg
deserved nominations too, and the sound team. A friend of mine
tried to talk the Academy into giving the film a special Oscar, which
would have been an elegant move on its part, but was rebuffed -- he
reported that there seemed no interest or appreciation of why that should be. But who said life
is fair? Welles sometimes spoke about how there is no justice in the world.

[Le Chiffre]

I find myself wondering if this could have had something to do with the snub:
https://vimeo.com/71971609