They'll Love Me When I'm Dead

[RayKelly]

THEY'LL LOVE ME WHEN I'M DEAD director Morgan Neville with Sean Graver, son of THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND cinematographer Gary Graver; and Orson Welles youngest daughter, Beatrice, at a reception in Los Angeles on October 23.

[Wellesnet]

‘Other Side of the Wind’ documentarian Morgan Neville: My North Star was ‘F for Fake’

MORGAN NEVILLE: "One thing I love about F for Fake is that Orson asks a lot of his audience. I feel too often with documentaries people spoon feed the audience. Orson was the opposite. I like this idea that “I’m going to challenge you to follow along and make up your own mind.” I think the overwhelming experience after watching F for Fake is that I want to watch it again— right now. There is an element of “let’s challenge the audience and make them work for it” that I love as a viewer. I wanted to play with that idea.
I did things did with this (movie) I have not done on documentaries before — from the way I shot it to the lack of IDs to the speed of the edits. If you don’t experiment when you’re making something about Orson, when are you ever going to have that chance? I felt we not only had the permission, but the responsibility to play with form."

Full interview at http://www.wellesnet.com/other-side-wind-morgan-neville/

[leamanc]

So, I found this to be perfectly adequate. For those less up on everything Welles, it provides just enough context to aid their viewing of Other Wind. For die-hards, there’s all the outtakes and other Orson footage to enjoy.

I do wish, like many others, that it identified its subjects. Yes, a lot of us know who these people are, but what about those who don’t?

I also wish it was more detailed in the production of Other Wind, and all the hurdles it faced trying to get completed and released. It breezes over the lost money, the lawsuits, and I don’t even recall if Showtime was brought up at all.

[Le Chiffre]

I don't think it was mentioned. Nor was the huge struggle to get Oja's camp to sign in order to finally release the negative from the Paris vault. Both Beatrice and Oja contributed to the doc, so it refrains from bashing either. It basically ends with Welles's death. That's why I think A FINAL CUT is a valuable interlude between the two films, even though that glosses over all the legal wrangling too. Josh Karp's book is great in describing all that stuff, though, and I hope he updates it sometime.

[NoFake]

leamanc wrote:

I do wish, like many others, that it identified its subjects. Yes, a lot of us know who these people are, but what about those who don’t?

Even those of us who know these people by name or by face might not recognize the face if it's changed substantially in 40-plus years. Which, in most cases, is almost a given.

[jbrooks]

I find the documentary to be unfair in its discussion of Welles' unfinished films. First, it treats "Don Qixote" as though it were a traditional film project rather than Welles' personal hobby. It even edits out from Welles' statement in "Filming The Trial" the part where Welles expressly states that Don Quixote was "a private exercise" that he would finish "in my own good time." Second, the film wrongly implies that "The Merchant of Venice" was a feature film. It wasn't. It was a truncated made-for-TV version of the play that would have run for about 30 minutes. Third, it implies that "The Dreamers" was started in earnest as a real film production. It wasn't. Welles was seeking funding, which he was never able to obtain. While he waited, he shot a few scenes around his house. But he never planned to finish the entire film in that way. It would be more accurate to say that Welles never seriously started "The Dreamers" (for lack of funds) than to say that he didn't finish it.

["The Deep" is the one project mentioned that was a real feature that Welles did leave unfinished. But even there, I think Bogdanovich's quote in the film is wrong. He says that the film was shot in its entirety (aside from ADR work). But the existing work print is missing quite a bit of its climactic fight and the shark attack. And sources indicate that Welles never filmed those parts.]

[Terry]

Morgan Neville at the New York Film Festival

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXYn3YMFmRc

[RayKelly]

THEY'LL LOVE ME WHEN I'M DEAD is among 166 documentaries submitted this week for Oscar consideration.
The shortlist of 15 films will be announced Dec. 17.
Nominees for Academy Awards will be revealed on Jan. 22.
The Oscars are set for Feb. 24.

[Le Chiffre]

4. Welles' falling out with Bogdanovich is discussed but not explained. The film shows Welles lashing out at Bogdanovich, and Bogdanvich speaks about that. But there's no explanation as to why Welles was angry with him. The fact that Welles felt betrayed by Bogdanovich directing "Saint Jack," which Welles himself had been set to direct, is entirely ommitted. Instead, the viewer is left to think that Welles was just a disloyal jerk who insulted his friend on TV.

That's a good point, JBrooks. It would be nice to have a precise timeline of what happened and WHEN regarding Saint Jack.

According to Wiki, the novel was published June 1973. Welles told Bogdanovich the book would make a wonderful film.

I don't know when Playboy published the nude photos of Cybil Shepard, or when her lawsuit against them obtained the rights to the novel.

We also don't know exactly when Welles decided he wanted Dean Martin for the role instead of Jack Nicholson, causing friction with Bogdanovich and Hugh Hefner.

It does appear that Welles made his remark to Burt Reynolds on The Tonight Show in April 1977, about 4 months after Bogdanovich's NICKELODEON had become his third bomb in a row.

Bogdanovich shot Saint Jack in 1978 and the film was released in 1979.

A more accurate timeline would better establish some cause and effect here. But you're right that the doc suggests Welles just wanting to bitchslap his friend on national TV for no real reason. I'm glad they got that clip, though.

Here's a 2009 thread that goes into the Saint Jack situation in a little more detail-
Why the Welles/Bogdanovich relationship became 'poisonous':
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1637

[Tony]

In the doc there's some footage of Welles visiting Venice in the 70s, but I thought the footage of him visiting Venice shot for Filming Othello was lost; has it been found?

[Roger Ryan]

In the doc there's some footage of Welles visiting Venice in the 70s, but I thought the footage of him visiting Venice shot for Filming Othello was lost; has it been found?

I'm going off memory here, but I believe it was the audio tracks for the Venice footage which were lost, making the footage unusable for Filming Othello (note the footage appears silent in the doc). At any rate, I believe Gary Graver had the Venice footage in his garage for many years, so if it was lost at all, it wasn't lost for long.

[Wellesnet]

Morgan Neville: ‘They’ll Love Me When I’m Dead’ Is No Orson Welles Biography:
https://www.indiewire.com/2018/11/theyl ... 7/#respond

The documentary and a completed version of Welles’ movie, “The Other Side of the Wind,” are both available to watch on Netflix, though Neville said, “they were not meant to come out together.”

Neville’s goal for his own project was to give audiences a glimpse at Welles’ mindset in the final years of his life, which Neville calls “the least understood period.” Welles had been living in Europe for decades, and was viewed as a has-been in Hollywood because, Neville says, “nobody saw the work he was doing in that time.”

The film isn’t a biography — “Orson lived a huge life, and there’s no way to do that in less than 20 hours,” Neville said — and instead borrows its structure from Welles’ own “F for Fake.” “It’s the real documentary Orson made in his life,” Neville said, adding, “It’s about fakery and fakers and ultimately the truth.”

[jbrooks]

We also don't know exactly when Welles decided he wanted Dean Martin for the role instead of Jack Nicholson, causing friction with Bogdanovich and Hugh Hefner. It does appear that Welles made his remark to Burt Reynolds on The Tonight Show in April 1977, about 4 months after Bogdanovich's NICKELODEON had become his third bomb in a row. Bogdanovich shot Saint Jack in 1978 and the film was released in 1979. A more accurate timeline would better establish some cause and effect here.

Josh Karp's book describes that Tonight Show incident as being a direct result of Bogdanovich usurping the "Saint Jack" project from Welles.

[Le Chiffre]

Sounds good, thanks. I guess that's what Welles meant in his second memo to PB: "You deserved it."

Unfortunately that motive was not known to the viewing public, who must have taken it as pure spite.

Of course, Bogdanovich returned the favor shortly after Welles's death: "There came a point in a lot of people's lives when they had to decide whether they were going to live their own life or take care of Orson. Or at least help Orson take care of himself."
- Howard Rodman's "The Last Days of Orson Welles." American Film, January, 1986

It's also probably worth mentioning that Welles himself had felt burned by Rich Little who, on a talk show appearance, related the story of everyone having to react to midgets that weren't there. Welles reportedly complained to Little later that the story had made him look like a fool.

Back in those days, talk shows were apparently one of the main platforms for "rough kidding."

Bogdanovich's SAINT JACK on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxbfzGRVwiA

[Wellesnet]

They'll Love Me When I'm Dead is one of Hindustan Times' "Top 10 Online Streaming Movies of 2018":
https://www.hindustantimes.com/hollywoo ... HdBzJ.html