Too bad they can't close Wellesnet Facebook down instead.

[Le Chiffre]

This board is much better organized. Wow, what a waste.

[etimh]

Agreed. This is profoundly disappointing. It will be a shame to see the main Wellesnet site go down, but what would it take to at least keep this board up? Jeff? Anybody?

Tim

[The Night Man]

I doubt there will be a reprieve this time but can anyone really be surprised about this? It's been pretty half-hearted since Jeff pulled out.

[Le Chiffre]

It's true, since the board reopened there have been few people bothering to contribute to it, but there are still people reading it, judging from the hundreds of hits many recent threads have gotten. Can we tell how many people read Facebook?

[The Night Man]

I'm not just referring to the message board. The whole site has been left to languish, which has probably actually discouraged participation on the board. Jeff's ennui has finally enveloped all of Wellesnet.

[Roger Ryan]

It was fun while it lasted.

I really enjoyed meeting all of you here and sharing info and talk about Welles. I'll still be around on Facebook, but it won't be the same.

[Jeff Wilson]

Since perhaps some further explanation is needed: a while back, as you might recall, Larry announced he was to buy the site from me. You may call it mercenary, but after years of work putting the site together, moderating the board, etc, I felt I deserved a payment of some sort if I was giving up the entire site to someone else. We both let it trail on longer than we should have, but when I broached the topic again with Larry, he no longer was interested, and so we agreed that the site would close, since he preferred Facebook.

The problem with keeping the site and board going is the same one that has been present since I started it ten plus years ago: NO ONE has ever been interested in working on it, aside from Larry. I solicited help for the site many times over the years, if only to provide different viewpoints, ideas, whatever, but never got a bite, aside from Larry's articles and the people who sent me information to put on a page, for which I was grateful. It is work that takes lots of time and energy. If I were starting the site now, it would be nothing but a blog.

As for the message board, the one person who volunteered to run it other than me emailed after his brief term to tell me "The message board you have there is absolutely fucking ridiculous. You just need to shut it down and let them clamor else where on someone else's dime." It took 24 days from him getting full mod powers to resignation. He probably needed a thicker skin, but it also speaks to how things were here at the time, and why I shut it down entirely. If I had it to do over again, I'd have banned Glenn permanently and left the board to go on its way. Shutting it down has obviously pretty much killed participation.

Running a message board is an utterly thankless chore, as I have said before. The software has to be managed, as do the posters. It's a job where you get shit on no matter what you do, basically, and it's no surprise that Matt left when he did. During my time here I've been accused of ridiculous crap and physically threatened (though the person who did that was clearly batshit crazy). And I'm doing this for free? So why keep doing it? Because I love Welles' work? I can enjoy that on my own!

If you have other questions, feel free to ask.

[Le Chiffre]

Thanks for the info, Jeff. I understand a little better now.

Sorry if this is a tacky question, but I'm sure people are curious: How much did you want to sell the board outright? I know Larry French has indicated elsewhere that the operating expenses for the board amounted to about $200 annually. That would be no problem if the initial expenditure for the board itself was not a budget buster. As I told Larry, I'd be happy to moderate, but frankly I don't think it needs much moderating anymore. It's lucky to have any posters at all.

You're right, if you really wanted Glenn banned you should have done it yourself instead of bringing in a newbie like Matthew to do it. You had earned the right to do it, but he hadn't. But then, having been physically threatened would probably have made me wary too.

Your idea for a Welles blog is a good one. Dave Kehr's DVD site is one of the best film sites on the web, with one of the best formats:

http://www.davekehr.com/

[Jeff Wilson]

To clarify, the site costs $9 a month in hosting fees, so $108 a year to run. The price agreed upon for the site as a whole was $600. I offered the choice of the domain and the blog for free, or that and the rest of the site and the board for a price, to which Larry offered the above, and I accepted. So if someone out there wants to buy, shoot me an email. I deleted a large portion of the site already, but it's all backed up.

Regarding bans, I should say that Matthew wasn't brought in to ban anyone, but that in the wake of his departure, I would have handed out the ban mentioned based on what I did see and read. I hadn't been reading the board at all for many months prior to that.

[RayKelly]

Jeff,
Thank you for all you have done.
It will be sad to see the site end, but I totally understand your position.
Ray

[Le Chiffre]

Jeff,
2 last-ditch questions just for grins:

1. How much for the board alone?

2. How much would be required to keep the board going for another year? Or in other words, if there’s enough interest out there, would you be amenable to having us rent it from you, for $200? This would mean, $108 for the yearly host fee, and $92 to you: in case anything technical goes wrong with the board, you would fix it. This would mean 10 people would have to come up with $20 each, or 5 of us would have to come up with $40 each, or 20 of us with $10 each, or whatever. If there’s not enough interest in raising $200 out there, then put the board out of it’s misery.

[Glenn Anders]

Okay, Jeff: I have some questions, and I think I deserve some answers.

While no one has more respect and admiration for you and what you have done in creating Wellesnet, and maintaining it over more years than most of us have been members, but for the life of me, I can't understand why this wonderful, worldwide-known resource should be shut down. Do you mean that the partly satisfactory hybrid on Facebook (mixing as it does Wellesiana with Sci-Fi, etc) is to lose access to hundreds of pages of archival material, some of it like Roger Ryan's or Rick Schmidlen's expertise, irreplaceable? Aside from your no doubt justified complaints about helping you pay for and run "the board," you have repeatedly made allegations that at the heart of the trouble on Wellesnet, the most nettling factor necessitating the closure of "the board," is the character known as "Glenn." Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Welles fans have been told over a couple of years that the primary problem at Wellesnet, money and personnel excepted, is "Glenn Anders"? What in Orson's name did I do? What could I have written or done which would be so toxic? What would have caused you to shut down a superb cultural and artistic archive over The Crimes of Glenn Anders? I have been genuinely mortified in my soul, and I feel disgraced. [I feel weak, honestly, as I write these words.]

Jeff, I probably watched most of Orson Welles' films, first run, in a theater, before many of our members at Wellesnet were born. In the late Spring of 1941, at age 9, I went with my parents to CITIZEN KANE (and understood it pretty well). In the Army, in London, I saw a version of MR. ARKADIN which only a handful can ever have seen, and it is acknowledged that my reconstruction of the opening scene, etc, helped in the creation of "The Complete Arkadin" by Stefan Droessler and his team in Munich. In London, too, that Summer of 1955, I was one of a limited audience who saw the initial production of Welles' most successful original play, "Moby Dick -- Rehearsed," and presented my personal recollections of that evening in these pages, upon the request of a number of members. Critics and people close to Orson Welles in his lifetime have written, or told me personally, that my views of Welles' life and work are among the most insightful they have come across. But that does not give me the right to be a menace. If, as a layman, my having had primary source experiences with Welles' work, expressing those experiences, having spirited discussions and even arguments with other members, causes you to close down an institution like Wellesnet, then I must be 'batshit crazy," too. [I am making perhaps the false assumption that the batshit crazy one preceded me, right?]

May you answer these questions for me, and the rest of us?

I'm a 79 year-old man (will be 80 within a month), suffering from at least three life-sapping diseases, less and less able to get out, or even function. My retirement savings have been exhausted, and I live on a modest pension of $2,700 a month (not a great deal, when living in San Francisco, and long having paid many of "Todd Baesen's" bar bills), with seriously ill grown children, and family in my own generation with deadly illnesses. [Apologies, btw, to the real Todd Baesen, whom I've never met.] I went bankrupt about six months ago, a victim of identity theft. [Just thinking of all that makes me feel "batshit crazy" at times!] And I financially support members of my family, all-in-all, to an extent that any emergency means "we" run out of money before month's end. It has weighed mentally on my ability to do my creative and artistic projects.

But that has not prevented me from contributing opinions to the boards, and financially to the Wellesnet cause. Within the last year, I gave $30 dollars toward maintaining Wellesnet, and initially at least, that was understood as a beginning downpayment to taking the Board off your hands, Jeff. In addition, I made a high bid of $40 in an auction for a first edition of Orson Welles' Twelfth Night, in the Everybody's Shakespeare Series. My belief was that this sum, too, was to be donated to Wellesnet. Over these months, several members have come to my attention, inquiring why contributions they made to Wellesnet had not been acknowledged. [A number, I suspect, as once floated, believe that I AM "Todd Baesen," as well as "Glenn Anders."] Tony Williams wrote repeatedly, saying after contributing sums of money, that he had been expecting promised copies of Welles' scripts for use in his classes. My impression is that he was not alone. [In fact, I was somewhat dumfounded that when I offered to make out my cheques to Wellesnet, Larry French told me that no Wellesnet account existed, assured me that writing the cheques to him would be fine. Should not Wellesnet's incomes and outgoes, ridiculously minimum though they may be, be dealt with in a bank account, on a somewhat business basis? Since going badly broke and physically not able to attend many movies, I have not been able to be out with Larry, as in the past. The last time we saw each other was when he was my guest for a champagne and oysters dinner on Bastille Day at Nellie McKay's spectacular "I Want to Live" show at Yoshi's SF. He did not mention these problems that I can remember then, and I have not been able to reach him by phone in the last several days, though I have left "call back" messages.]

And you say, Jeff, everyone has just been just been standing around.

Not me.

So, 708 bucks? Piece of cake, Jeff, I should think, now that we know about the problem, for the first time, really.

[If I read Mike correctly, always loyal as I've found him, he has offered in the past to take over the Board. Possibly others would do so, too, or assist.]

Years ago, I had my dentist begin to save the gold fillings and crowns, etc, from my teeth. I've kept them in a little jar. Recently, a month ago or so, as a matter of fact, preparing for my older son's birthday (August 12 -- what a present here!), I had my younger son take about 18 grams of dental gold to a commercial buyer. To our surprise, he was given $400. I have at least another 30 grams (maybe, a troy ounce). I'll sell a portion of that emergency cache, and pledge two to three hundred dollars for the cause. It's as close as I come to "a pound of flesh." I'm sure others would pitch in, even in these Hard Times, thirty or forty dollars apiece.

All that's required from you, Jeff, is one more generous act. [In all my private correspondence with you, btw, I've found you a model of helpfulness and civility, another reason for my bewilderment.] Talk with Mike and others who were never informed in recent days of the dire straits Wellesnet was in. Set up a bank account in the name of Wellesnet, appoint a trustee, and give us an address where to send the cheques. Send us receipts, for those who deduct such contributions for tax purposes. [I'd like one, too, even though I don't make deductions.]

Once more to the breech, Jeff, please, before you tip your hat and ride off into the sunset!

Glenn

[etimh]

Though I have not been able to follow the wellesnet board as closely as I would have liked to over the years, I do regularly drop in to see what people are talking about and to see if there is any breaking news. It has, in that regard, always been an informative and comforting resource and entertainment.

Also because of my extended periods of absence, I am not completely aware of all of the specific circumstances that have caused disagreement and conflict here. But I have participated in many rough and tumble forums over the years and all have eventually overcome and survived the troubles. This place too, though seemingly wounded, could heal and become well again.

I truly wish I could take over the whole thing myself. I feel, as Glenn and others do, that it is that important. While I simply don't have the ability to do that, I will make a firm commitment of a $50 contribution to someone who can do it. I think if given the opportunity, others would step up as well to help out.

Tim

[Nepenthe]

I add my thanks to Jeff for founding and building this fine resource.

I am also surprised at the relatively small amount needed to run the board.
The last time the call went out for contributions, I donated at least that much, without receiving acknowledgement.
I sent the money to the personal address of the individual who took over after Jeff retired from active management.

I have a feeling that the money could be easily raised to maintain the archive's accessibility if we could be assured this time that the money would not disappear.

If it is necessary to shut down the message board, that would be no loss as it has been, for practical purposes, dormant since its last closure.

But the loss of the archival material would be a real loss to posterity.

I'll be happy to send a check for the one fees to maintain the board as an archival resource, closed to new postings; if Jeff will just print an address where checks can be sent to him.

Thanks again Jeff for this excellent site

[Jeff Wilson]

Well, things have apparently progressed a bit since I last checked in. Some brief answers, since I am busy with work today:

1) Glenn: I don't have the time or inclination to get into your entire post, so all I can say is I haven't been in charge of the last couple fundraising efforts, so I can't speak to how it was done. I had nothing to do with the scripts offer (I had to see what this was, to be honest). Here is what I know: Larry made me an offer for the site last year in the wake of Matthew's flameout as moderator. I said yes. I did not follow up on it for many months. When I did, Larry said he was no longer interested in purchasing the site. We agreed to close it. I began that process. And here we are today. That is all I know.

2) If you all are serious about purchasing the site/board, then I suggest you hash out amongst yourselves how you're going to do it; you really ought to select someone to be in charge, so there are no hard feelings down the line. Someone is going to have to manage the payment of service fees to the host each month (and you should check on just paying by year, it's probably cheaper). If you choose to remain with the same host, they are very friendly and quick to assist with problems. I need to investigate how to transfer ownership of the domain name, which expires in late December. Someone will need to at least approve new members on the board and moderate in times of crisis. I would offer to upgrade the board software, but it is something I haven't done in quite literally years, and you might be best served by looking on the phpBB forums for people who do upgrades, either for free or a nominal fee.

3) If you wish to contribute to this endeavor, I guess we need to lay that out as well. I can accept Paypal through my email address (scorpionandfrog AT hotmail.com), or if you wish to mail a check, either send me a personal message or email me at the aforementioned address and I will give you the snail mail address. Once the $600 total is reached, I will post to let folks know to stop sending money. If there is overage I will forward it to whomever receives the Crown of Agony, aka the person in charge, and they can use the funds to pay for hosting fees/hookers and blow/etc.