I don't know if this has been posted already, but I found this review of the R2 edition of Arkadin through DVD-Basen. The reviewer seems to be a bit of a know-nothing as far as Welles goes, but the audio/video presentation sounds tasty.
(Unknown, of course, which "Arkadin" this is, based on the review.)
The R2 Project
Mr. Arkadin
Yeah, unless one could find a version cleaned up (that didn't do more damage than good in the cleaning) this is about as good as it gets. Purists won't like that it's PAL and thus not at the right speed. Barring easy access to the Criterion laserdisc, though, this is the way to go, for sure, if you can play region 0 PAL discs.
I'll try to use this thread to compare the three movie versions of Mr. Arkadin, and I'll try to avoid repeating things that are already in the Rosenbaum Article. Who knows when I'll really have time to go through all three films, but I'll try to list things as I think of them. Here are a few things off the top of my head:
1. The Corinth Arkadin is closer in form to the Public Domain version. This may seem shocking, but it's not as bad as it sounds once we realize what is different between these two versions. I'll leave Confidential Report out for the moment:
a. Take the public domain version and flesh it out a bit. One of the reasons the PD version is so choppy is that the "editors" of it seemd to have taken the Corinth version and cut out all suggestions of flashbacks. Both the Corinth and PD versions begin the same way, with the text, the plane flying, and the cast pics. The only difference here is that Akim's clip comes first in the Corinth Version and second-to-last in the PD version, since it goes by order of appearance. I wonder why the PD "choppers" took the time to swap the clips, since it seems they didn't take the time to do much else by way of continuity.
b. The final part of the opening credit sequence in both films involve footage of Van Stratten approaching the building Zouk is in. When the credits finish in the PD version, it cuts abruptly to the Bracco on the dock sequence. The Corinth Version continues the Zouk introduction sequence with Van Stratten entering the attic apartment and finding a near comotose Zouk staring off into space.
c. Such is the case with the PD version all throughout. Generally, the Corinth version periodically fades back to the attic scene where Van Stratten and Zouk banter. This ties the narrative together. PD cuts even the fades, so the edits between sequences are mega-abrupt. This is also the reason I believe the PD cutters used the already-edited Corinth version as a template, whereas the Confidential Report version was edited from raw footage.
2. The oddest thing about the Corinth version, and the reason why I understand how people like Jaime M. prefer the Confidential Report version is the option, by Welles presumably, to overdub narration over actual dialogue. Confidential Report uses the dialogue track, while the other two versions use the overdubbed narration. For the PD version this is horrid, since the editing is butchered anyway. When I realized that the Corinth Version did the same thing, at first I was confused, but then I realized:
a. When placed in the context of the flashback style, with periodic returns to Van Stratten and Zouk, the narration doesn't seem out of place at all. It actually pulls the whole piece tighter. We are continually reminded that this story is being told to Zouk, where in the PD version, it seems like sloppy editing and story construction.
b. Likewise, in the CR version, since there's less narration, and we only begin and end the entire flashback with the attic scene, we forget that the story is being told to Zouk.
Okay, I haven't even gotten started, and I've written a bunch. I'll have to watch the openings of each movie again to continue. I hope people are interested in this. Let me know.
1. The Corinth Arkadin is closer in form to the Public Domain version. This may seem shocking, but it's not as bad as it sounds once we realize what is different between these two versions. I'll leave Confidential Report out for the moment:
a. Take the public domain version and flesh it out a bit. One of the reasons the PD version is so choppy is that the "editors" of it seemd to have taken the Corinth version and cut out all suggestions of flashbacks. Both the Corinth and PD versions begin the same way, with the text, the plane flying, and the cast pics. The only difference here is that Akim's clip comes first in the Corinth Version and second-to-last in the PD version, since it goes by order of appearance. I wonder why the PD "choppers" took the time to swap the clips, since it seems they didn't take the time to do much else by way of continuity.
b. The final part of the opening credit sequence in both films involve footage of Van Stratten approaching the building Zouk is in. When the credits finish in the PD version, it cuts abruptly to the Bracco on the dock sequence. The Corinth Version continues the Zouk introduction sequence with Van Stratten entering the attic apartment and finding a near comotose Zouk staring off into space.
c. Such is the case with the PD version all throughout. Generally, the Corinth version periodically fades back to the attic scene where Van Stratten and Zouk banter. This ties the narrative together. PD cuts even the fades, so the edits between sequences are mega-abrupt. This is also the reason I believe the PD cutters used the already-edited Corinth version as a template, whereas the Confidential Report version was edited from raw footage.
2. The oddest thing about the Corinth version, and the reason why I understand how people like Jaime M. prefer the Confidential Report version is the option, by Welles presumably, to overdub narration over actual dialogue. Confidential Report uses the dialogue track, while the other two versions use the overdubbed narration. For the PD version this is horrid, since the editing is butchered anyway. When I realized that the Corinth Version did the same thing, at first I was confused, but then I realized:
a. When placed in the context of the flashback style, with periodic returns to Van Stratten and Zouk, the narration doesn't seem out of place at all. It actually pulls the whole piece tighter. We are continually reminded that this story is being told to Zouk, where in the PD version, it seems like sloppy editing and story construction.
b. Likewise, in the CR version, since there's less narration, and we only begin and end the entire flashback with the attic scene, we forget that the story is being told to Zouk.
Okay, I haven't even gotten started, and I've written a bunch. I'll have to watch the openings of each movie again to continue. I hope people are interested in this. Let me know.
Fredric
I want to underline your statement that while the Corinth version has some similarities to the PD version, one needs to throw all kinds of caveats around that statement:
The pacing of the Corinth version, and nuances in terms of intercutting between pieces of scenes, etc., in the Corinth version is, in my opinion, more sophisticated than the Confidential Report version.
The voiceover reminds (gulp) of Citizen Kane, a bit, in that it bridges from scenes of the telling, in the present, back to the events (which is something you mention) and works well in that context.
The pacing of the Corinth version, and nuances in terms of intercutting between pieces of scenes, etc., in the Corinth version is, in my opinion, more sophisticated than the Confidential Report version.
The voiceover reminds (gulp) of Citizen Kane, a bit, in that it bridges from scenes of the telling, in the present, back to the events (which is something you mention) and works well in that context.
Great info! Not being that familiar with Arkadin since I've only seen it once long ago, but I thought the Public Domain version and one of the others (Corinth?) are virtually the same running time, give or take a few minutes... perhaps I'm wrong. But are there a number of different takes/scenes between the two? I believe there has been a good thread here on this topic before, but I really appreciate your efforts here.
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Le Chiffre
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Frederic,
Yes, I think the Public Domain version is definitely a butchering of the "Corinth" version. In addition to crudely rearranging all the scenes in chronological order and elimanating all the narration/framing scenes between Van Stratton and Zouk, they also eliminated the scene where Arkadin's financier rival, Sir Joseph, denounces Arkadin as "an unscrupulous barbarian".
It's unfortunate that the public domain version of Arkadin is the one that the market is flooded with. I wonder if the Corinth version is under some kind of copyright. I bought my copy years ago for $4 out of a cheapie bin so it may not be. Of course, who would WANT to copyright the PD mess.
Another way of thinking about the different versions of Arkadin might be:
1. The Corinth Version - Welles' American cut
2. Confidential Report - Welles' British cut
3. Public Domain version - Producer Luis Dolivet's cut
4. Spanish version - Welles' (?) Spanish cut.
Yes, I think the Public Domain version is definitely a butchering of the "Corinth" version. In addition to crudely rearranging all the scenes in chronological order and elimanating all the narration/framing scenes between Van Stratton and Zouk, they also eliminated the scene where Arkadin's financier rival, Sir Joseph, denounces Arkadin as "an unscrupulous barbarian".
It's unfortunate that the public domain version of Arkadin is the one that the market is flooded with. I wonder if the Corinth version is under some kind of copyright. I bought my copy years ago for $4 out of a cheapie bin so it may not be. Of course, who would WANT to copyright the PD mess.
Another way of thinking about the different versions of Arkadin might be:
1. The Corinth Version - Welles' American cut
2. Confidential Report - Welles' British cut
3. Public Domain version - Producer Luis Dolivet's cut
4. Spanish version - Welles' (?) Spanish cut.
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Obssessed_with_Orson
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jaime marzol
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great info fredric. inspires me watch them again, all 3 arkadins.
fredric wrote:
"I understand how people like Jaime M. prefer the Confidential Report version."
no, no, the world prefers CR, i love all 3 versions.
and i like your creative naming of the techs who worked on it. the PD Choppers, is perfect.
mteal's naming of the cuts works well. has any one seen the spanish version, and is it different from the other 3?
fredric wrote:
"I understand how people like Jaime M. prefer the Confidential Report version."
no, no, the world prefers CR, i love all 3 versions.
and i like your creative naming of the techs who worked on it. the PD Choppers, is perfect.
mteal's naming of the cuts works well. has any one seen the spanish version, and is it different from the other 3?
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ChristopherBanks
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Some of you may already have seen this, but it contains this sentence which I thought was a very astute summary of Welles' films:
"...Orson Welles' films never conclude with a return to the status quo because they occur, from start to finish, in a world that doesn't accept compromises."
The full article here:
http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/00/10/arkadin.html
"...Orson Welles' films never conclude with a return to the status quo because they occur, from start to finish, in a world that doesn't accept compromises."
The full article here:
http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/00/10/arkadin.html
****Christopher Banks****
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jaime marzol
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ChristopherBanks
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DVD Times has published a review of the UK DVD of Confidential Report:
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=5800
I bought this when it came out and I was favourably surprised at the picture quality of this despite of what they say in the review.
It is also very cheap, £5.-.
Note that the release is Region 0, so as long as your player (and TV) can handle PAL there is no need for a multiregion player.
Anders
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=5800
I bought this when it came out and I was favourably surprised at the picture quality of this despite of what they say in the review.
It is also very cheap, £5.-.
Note that the release is Region 0, so as long as your player (and TV) can handle PAL there is no need for a multiregion player.
Anders
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